What's the meanest thing anyone has said to you as an eventer? (or wannabe)

[meupatdoes]

I had one trainer who gave inconsistent advice across lessons (so one lesson he would say ‘lean further back and get deeper in the tack to drive the horse forward’ and the next lesson he would say the opposite) culminating in one lesson where he began irately yelling IS THIS FUN FOR YOU?! IS THIS FUN?!
I left.

I had another experience at a hunter jumper clinic where one of the clinicians explained that my horse was “the only horse here that doesn’t know how to collect.” I thought this was interesting because the same horse was schooling tempis and canter pirouettes at home, had been selected from a video by a well known dressage clinician to demo-ride lead changes for a dressage symposium at USET HQ in Gladstone, and not long after this clinic earned me my Bronze scores with third level scores topping 64% (a better-educated pilot would have earned him a 70+). But out of all the hunters at this clinic he was the one that didn’t know how to collect, okie dokie. I mean, I really do not mind any critique that is fair but spending $400+ to hear stuff that is made up out of left field and randomly singles me out out of 20 people is another thing.
I was tempted to whip out a quick canter pirouette but I behaved.

[yellowbritches]

I have either been very lucky or am very good at picking who I spend my money on. I’ve had some seriously tough coaching, but I have never really been belittled, bullied, or unjustly yelled at. The “worst” moment I can think of was in my first year or so with my old, long time boss. I had just enough knowledge to be dangerous and was having a HORRIBLE dressage lesson on a very tough horse. I talked back out of frustration and was told that if I continued to talk back and be so ungrateful, I would lose the ride on the horse. The whole thing ended in tears…it was a HIGHLY frustrating ride and being called out for being a snot stung. The horse went lame the next day, which totally explained his complete lack of cooperation the day before. Former boss STILL (over a decade later) apologizes to me for getting mad at me and making me cry since the horse was obviously trying to tell us something. That is the closest to bullying I think I’ve ever come.

I’ve had disappointing lessons with heart throbs of the sport and I’ve been very rightfully yelled at for riding like an idiot (same old boss read me the riot act for riding VERY poorly in one of my first lessons with him and putting good old Neigh and myself into a very dangerous situation!). But I’ve never, ever felt like I’ve been treated badly.

As a kid, I had one really poor riding instructor (she was the epitome of a bad hunter trainer) who washed her hands of Neigh and I because he wasn’t grasping the concept of jumping. Instead of helping me work through his spookiness, she said he was never going to jump and I should give him back (he was a free lease at the time). After a few days of teenage angst, I opted to just not ride with her anymore and see if I could fix it myself. Long story short, Neigh went on to be a dandy little 3’ local hunter, pretty handy jumper, and a total packer through novice.

I’ve never wasted time with bad coaches. :winkgrin:

[OverandOnward]

Great responses, very interesting reading.

To me there is a difference between “very forthright” and “bullying”, and I’ve definitely seen and heard both. The forthright instructors are the ones who pushed me to try harder. I don’t mind some verbal energy - they have to make themselves heard over distance, dust, wind, hoofbeats. They have to communicate the energy they need to give to the students. The best do it with humor - forthrightly expressed!

I’ve been lucky that I can only think of one experience out of what must be thousands of lessons (counting clinics) that might qualify as “bullying”. A BNR who was said to be “nicer than she used to be” had a backsliding moment, I guess, and just lost it with me, for no explainable reason I could understand. Near the end of a clinic session that had gone well enough my horse became very upset by a new jumping problem she put in front of us. He was shaking and coming apart, I have never known him like this before or since. She was verbally pushing harder and more aggressively and it was getting worse. I finally felt this was that moment I had to stand up for my horse. I said quietly and calmly “this is just not the time, we’ll call it a day”. She went ballistic, shouting and saying mean things about quitting and worthlessness. The spectators that had come with her were looking at her with alarm. When she was taking a breath I said calmly “I’ll take him back to the trailer” and started walking away. What she shouted from there I didn’t listen to.

Took the horse home - it was 15 minutes away - got him out of the trailer, tacked up, went to the jumps and he popped over the same problem with no issues whatsoever. Of course he was at home, but there it is. We were done and back at the wash stall in 15 minutes. Since then of course he’s had his moments like any horse, but he’s never melted down like that again.

The BNR clinic’ed regularly in that area. Her clinics stopped filling for whatever reason. I used to get phone calls from clinic organizers asking if I would take an open spot to help fill one of her clinics. Answer: “no”.

[QUOTE=whitney159;7648731]
On the funny side of this, a friend told me a story about a locally well known hunter trainer in NC, who was a bully and yelled at her students (young and adult) like they were idiots all the time. This had gone of forever. One of her adult students was warming up in the indoor at one of the A shows at the fairgrounds. Trainer starts to yell at her to do something over again and the student had just had it. She stops the horse and gets off. Trainer yells “what are you doing?” and she tells her she’s done being screamed at and ends with “you work for ME!”. You go girl![/QUOTE]

[ standing ovation ]

[QUOTE=Peaches;7648980]At my first recognized Training with my horse (third Training ever), my horse and I had a nice XC round. I was 14, had just started eventing that year, and was a bit uncomfortable at that level. So my default speed was slow. I think we got 13+ time penalties.

After my round, I ran into one of my area’s young riders. My horse had been a sale horse with her mom and we’d purchased him from them less than a year before. I was beaming about my ride and she just sneered at me, “Wow, what a nice hunter round.”

I was a sensitive kid and ended up going back to my trailer to cry. No idea why it stung me like that, but I still can’t look at that girl or her mom without being reminded.[/QUOTE]

She was a jerk. You were a star.

[wildlifer]

[QUOTE=Willesdon;7648754]
the notable horsepeople that I have been honoured to meet through my life have been quiet, gentle souls who have a profound understanding of these wonderful animals.[/QUOTE]

This. And this thread is a perfect example of why I have my own personal rule that baffles many: There are MAYBE four or five trainer anywhere that I will ride with. I am excruciatingly picky about it because I might get to take 10 or so lessons a year if I am lucky. Heck if I’m taking a risk on whether I’ll get my money’s worth or my time wasted. So I guess I don’t encounter it because I just don’t even walk into that situation.

I’ve also spent my life learning, watching teachers, and watching teaching styles. I’m an adult rider who is educated enough to KNOW when I’ve screwed up and I’m way too hard on myself as it is. My awesome awesome trainer (oh, I’ll call him out, David O’Brien is The Shiz-nit!) knows that I’m already beating myself up in my head; every ride I get, he manages to quietly and poetically bring out the best in my partner and I. I work my tail off riding with him, but I also stagger home from a 40 minute lesson with six months worth of things to work on and think about. And even if he has something to say that I don’t want to hear (like I need to take my horse to the vet school), it’s constructive, helpful, and includes a positive plan of action.

Yep, I’ve certainly heard a snarky remark or two from the peanut gallery, but I’m pretty independent and I know what I am and what I am not, so it pretty much just makes me laugh.

My favourite, while not really mean, just ignorant, was the bystander who informed me that I was wrong, my Appendix QH “MUST be a warmblood, nothing else has that much suspension in its trot.” ROFLMAO. You’re totally right, I don’t know what my own horse is, thanks for clearing that up lady, hahaha!

[ChelseaR]

I have never really had a problem with instructors who are a bit tough or like to yell. I got my ass handed to me by my trainer a few times as a kid but it was mostly well deserved :).

The worst experience I have had was one that left me insulted and confused. I was taking some jumper lessons as a local ‘A’ show barn about 5 or 6 years ago.

There was a clinic that the trainer had organized that she recommended that I join.
The clinician was a friend of the trainers - Grand Prix rider from Europe somewhere - not a big name nor anyone I had heard of before but seemed legit.

Anyhow I was put in a group with three other ladies. I was definitely the least experienced and least polished rider of the group but I could ride around a 3’6" course on my mare reasonably well and I wasn’t particularly worried as a often lessoned with this group and the barn trainer had adjusted the exercises as needed. and it worked out well.

We did some flat work exercises which were fine, got a few minor corrections and a few compliments - no big deal.
Then we started jumping. We do a few fences and the clinician says absolutely nothing to me. Calls us into the middle to praise the ex-GP horse one of the ladies is riding (very nice horse too).

Then asks to see our two point position at the halt and proceeds to scream at me that he knew it would be bad and how my crotch was way over the pommel. I was confused - I could clearly see the front of the saddle and felt if anything that I was a bit too far back but I figure ok maybe I’m just not seeing it and try to correct my position.

I then notice he isn’t even looking at me but is complaining to the barn trainer with his back to me. I also notice that the other riders who I get along quite well with are looking puzzled (one of them asked me what I had done wrong but I really had no idea).

I asked for more feedback and got told to stop making excuses.

Now I should have walked out at that point but mostly I was just stunned and confused.

We go out and jump around some more and I get basically ignored.

First time down a five stride line set quite long, I add as my mare doesn’t have the longest stride and was struggling with the distance plus the jumps are a bit bigger than I’m 100% comfortable with. Line rides fine as a six.

I get told that it has to be a five and that I need to gallop it or leave the ring. Kind of stupidly I think ok - I can do that, so we gallop into the line and make it down is a rather strung out five strides and it’s a bit scary looking. I get told ‘good’.

I’m fairly rattled at this point but kind of shocked and too stupid to just leave.

Next time around coming into the line I get screamed at to gallop on and my mare trips slightly and is strung out and I realize I can’t make a good approach like this and circle to regroup.

I then get told I’m done for the day, that I am obviously over horsed, have no control, and my mare is running away with me (umm you were screaming at me to gallop on more, she can get a bit heavy but is really a bit on the lazy side and definitely not a runaway). Needless to say I didn’t come back the next day.

I still don’t really know what his issue was, the barn trainer wouldn’t talk about it, the other riders were just as confused as I was. Several people who were watching approached me later and asked if they had missed something.

Now I was obviously the least experienced rider in the group and when we were introducing ourselves to the clinician I made it clear what my experience was.

I was also riding the least fancy horse, the others were an ex-GP horse stepping down and two talented youngsters moving up, my mare was in her teens and was fine at 3’6" but didn’t really have the scope to go much higher.

I did find out later was that he had several pricey imported jumpers he was pushing hard to get the trainers to sell to the barn at the time.

I also found out the he appeared to be picking one person out of each group to scream at for no real good reason while not giving any real feed back other than that they were out of control etc. (always the less experienced person with the least fancy horse). Others he fawned over but gave no real feedback and some he seemed to teach quite well.

Now it could be that I just sucked compared to the rest of the group but screaming at me and refusing to answer any questions (and I did ask what I was doing wrong) isn’t exactly going to help me ride better!

It was weird, I should have left way earlier but was just basically stunned as nothing quite like that had every happened to me with a trainer or clinician before.

[Nomini]

I have exactly one story when I ever permitted anyone to be nasty to me while on my own horse. Years ago, the farm I boarded at in college used to host ICP instructor clinics. My pony was a solid prelim/ CCI* horse at the time, so I rode as the demo in a lesson while the instructor was observed by the ICP instructors. I was “taught” by a lady who completely ignored me when I told her about my horse and her lack of interest in tiny fences -there’s nothing graceful or productive about it. Maddie is only 14.2, and ponies, as you know, can’t jump big, so she made me spend the lesson attempting to trot crossrails on my prelim horse. Needless to say, it was a disaster, but I kept my mouth shut because it was technically HER lesson, not mine. At the end, she had the audacity to tell me that she didn’t think my mare was talented, scopey, or safe enough to go prelim to my face in front of two dozen other instructors and autditors. UGH. Thankfully, Phyllis Dawson, who knew me and my mare and knew how frustrated I was, used me for her demo the next morning. My mare gleefully jumped around a 3’9 course. I’ll never forget Phyllis telling all the potential instructors in attendance that they must always LISTEN to a rider as well as observe their riding. I still wonder if she ever passed

[La_Chasse]

Loved that posted Nomini. I used to be in Loudoun Hunt PC when Phyllis was teaching us. She TERRIFIED me, lol. She was a tough cookie!

Great post and series. I’ve been bullied ONLY by h/j trainers-- one recent, one a nber of years ago. Recent one was when I was lookin for a place to ride after moving to weird washington. Sent my video to trainer, trainer was slow as molasses to answer. Visited farm, she said her mom would be teaching a lesson that would be my level. It was an EFFIng adult beginner lesson-- as in diagonals. I was sitting in a viewing room wondering WTH do I do? Don’t want to be rude to the Owner but this is ridic.
Finally talked to her After my polite-self endured watching the entire lesson, I spoke to the mom/owner trainer and reiterated my background and made the error of saying I rode with a leetle more contact than in the previous lesson ( read: looped reins). She suddenly started trying to half-impress, half-snub me with all the shows they go to-- like two rated shows. I was just done with the BS so asked, for giggles, “do y’all have a dress code for lessons?” Answer,“oh yes. Whatever george morris would approve of.” Sucked.

I do see a lot of cattiness and competition amongst teenagers at one barn and HaTE the evil eyes I get from some of them. They are exhibiting classical modeling behavior unfortunately & not from me. I do have to remind myself when I’m feeling sensitive that I’ve been riding longer than they’ve been alive AND have multiple degrees AND they can kiss my ass bc when the poop hits the Fan, they run to me to stop bleeding. Just like yesterday morning- once with a horse and once with a dog.

[skydy]

I had tough “no nonsense” instruction as a child, which did include being shouted at (but on appropriate occasions, such as; not running stirrups up when dismounted , not properly using aids on horses that were very well trained and expected be ridden as such).

I never had an unfair or insecure instructor, that felt they had something to prove by shouting or criticizing for the crowd’s benefit… I was lucky I suppose. Tough (but fair) my teachers were. I was a timid but determined child , terrified of doing wrong, but never discouraged. Tough, but FAIR instruction ,it is not a difficult concept.

I have never experienced an instructor losing control and being unprofessional. There is no excuse for that behavior in the horse world or in any other business environment.

As an adult, I have not had the professional instruction that I had when I was young, as my life has gone away from horse shows. I can’t imagine why anyone would put up with an instructor that makes your riding time unpleasant. Of course you must be open to criticism in order to progress in your riding. As an adult you should know the difference between constructive criticism and abuse.

Parents , it seems, need to be vigilant to make sure riding stays fun and educational for their kids.

[Romily_Bernard]

Such interesting responses. I kept thinking about my own initial post and thought I’d add to it. I know. I know. Y’all are waiting with baited breath lol

Anyway, the instructor who was prone to throwing things and calling me names was constantly bullied by his own farm owner. I would be interested to know how many up and coming riders (technically, my instructor wasn’t really up and coming, he had ridden Advanced for years, but had no desire to continue doing so) feel like they’re used by the people who sponsor them/let them ride their horses/train at their farms. I wonder if it isn’t a trickle down effect and maybe that’s why they take it out on others? Not saying it’s an excuse, but it’s made me wonder. The farm owner believed he should be on call to her whenever she needed it. I don’t think it was the deal he originally signed on for, but, once there, couldn’t really leave.

Obviously, there are many wonderful BOs and owners, but the situation did stick with me over the years.

[arlosmine]

Interesting post!
I’ve had a huge variety of instruction and attempted instruction, and although I think yelling/belittling/insulting is terrible teaching, I have to admit that a few of the most important breakthroughs I’ve had were a result of being yelled at and being made to feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable.

The most significant experience was with Jill Hassler Scoop, who became so frustrated with me at a clinic that she repeatedly told/yelled at me to “get my head out of my a$$”…Very Loudly. Over the loudspeaker. In front of my students. About twenty times. I was completely confused, because what I was doing was normal to me, and obviously infuriating to her…I was very shaken up, had a little pity party with myself after the lesson, and considered quitting the rest of the clinic, but returned the next day. I am so glad I came back, because I really needed to “get” what she was trying to change in my riding, and I was just really being dense, lost in my own little world, and needed a butt-kicking. She had three days to make a change, and instead of a scalpel, she needed a wrecking ball.

The concept in question was my warm-up, or lack there-of (I THOUGHT I was doing a warm-up, of course). Instead of doing a progressive warm-up with excersizes which related to one another and led to connection in a step-by-step way, I was was asking too much of my horse, too early in the ride…Which made him tense and “resistant”, which I reacted to aggressively…which started us down the path of tension…and resulted in fighting. Yuck.

When I carefully staged the ride out to focus on creating and maintains relaxation in the back through a progressive warm up, we were able to get further along in the work, faster, with a better quality. DUH. The classic “Turtle And The Hare” story.

If she hadn’t “abused” me, I never would have changed this very important thing. She tried to get through to me before the “head out of the A$$” started, but I wasn’t hearing her.

I’ve had some other experiences of truly inappropriate abuse, which is a different thing…i just thought I’d share this story as an interesting side-note

[McGurk]

I do think you have to draw a firm line between tough and abusive.

Paul Cronin once critiqued me by saying a particular bad habit was “like picking your nose in public for a rider of your level.” I remember it precisely even though it was over 30 years ago. I considered Cronin to be the Southern George Morris; and I was devastated. But guess what? It cured me of that bad habit - I would start to do it and I would hear his voice in my ear. So I think that was appropriately tough, I needed someone to kick my butt and stop being lazy about working on some things.

I have heard lots of unproductive, abusive coaching at hunter shows, it just seems like that culture tolerates it.

Worst thing I ever saw was auditing an eventing BNT’s clinic where the BNT chased a timid rider’s horse over a fence with a lunge whip while the kid was having a stress induced asthma attack. (Horse had refused after being given a very unconvincing ride to the fence.) Unfrickin’ believable. I can still hear that kid wheezing as she rode by. There certainly was some verbal abuse as well, I just don’t remember those details. I quietly asked some other auditors WTH was going on and why the kid’s parents didn’t stop it and was told that they cliniced with the BNT regularly, that the kid was known to be timid and that the parents were on board with it because she needed to toughen up.

Changed the way I felt about the BNT whom I had attended wonderful clinics with previously. Clearly a coach best suited for the bold and brave.

[asterix]

Nomini, I am so not surprised by your ICP story, unfortunately. I stopped volunteering to be demo rider for the ICP workshops done at our farm after watching a very bad lesson or two on the XC course. But I DO volunteer to be demo rider for Phyllis when she is the faculty at the workshop, for that exact reason. Free lesson from her, yes! Sadly not so impressed with some of the ICP candidates though.

[Xctrygirl]

I’ve had my share of yelling and degrading comments, snickers from the sidelines etc. Those don’t bug me near as much as the following situation.

Step 1: Look for next nice upper level horse (I had done some Intermediates)
Step 2: Like a horse at a Big Name Event barn
Step 3: Buy said horse after it vets well. Admittedly it wasn’t an easy ride, but I liked it. (I was younger and far more confident in this horse than maybe I should have been)
Step4: Ride said animal to 4 clear prelims in the course of the next 3 months. Including some decent placings
Step 5: Have a stupid rider error fall in first Int with this horse. (Horse and I had both done the level separately) Broke collarbone.
Step6: Get told by a LOT of people that BNT whom I bought it from is now telling everyone that they “TOLD YOU NOT to buy the horse and you ignored them.”

Sigh

Oh well.

~Emily

[wildlifer]

I just remembered, I did have Eric Smiley last year tell me my “lower leg was all wrong.” Dangit, and here I thought it was getting decent! Sadly, I don’t have 10 horses a day to keep it perfect…but I do have to walk in rivers full of boulders that try to knock me over all day at work!

However, it was not “mean” at all – I do wish he had elaborated a little, but I understood that it wasn’t really the time to focus on that and he was full of praise for many other things. He was 110% fair in all his critiques and he held each rider in the clinic responsible for herself, raising the bar a little each day, which I really liked.

I HATE getting in trouble, yes, I’m a goody two-shoes student, haha, so even the gentlest scolding, while probably totally appropriate, leaves me in such paroxysms of guilt, it is very effective, hee! Becky Holder told me, “Stop being so perfect and ride that horse, girl!” (made me laugh…and also made me ride better!) Those dang hunters in college corrupted me!

[Kadenz]

I’m not an eventer, but I am loving this thread and I’m going to add my own.

My longtime trainer was becoming frustrated with my horse while riding him and wanted to use an auxiliary device that shall not be named. I was suspicious that the horse’s problems were pain-related and not training or attitude, and I said, “I’m not sure that’s the best idea because…”

The trainer cut in with “I don’t really give a s**t what you think.”

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I told him to get off my effing horse. I took the reins, led the horse out of the arena, and I didn’t ride with him much longer after that. I was a working student and apparently he thought he owned me as well as my horse. I never got around to explaining to him that that isn’t how you talk to people who are basically working for you for free, simply for the “joy” of your company and tutelage. :rolleyes:

[Nomini]

asterix, I understand what ICP is trying to do, really. But I don’t volunteer for the clinics anymore. Luckily that pony was pretty tough to fluster and came out none the worse for wear, she was just pissed haha. However, my current prelim/ CCI* TB would have irreparable damage from such a bad lesson :). I still hike up to MD when they need UL riders for the people going for their Level II and III certification, but those people tend to know what they are doing when they are actually testing. I’ve only ever had one really, really amazing lesson from an ICP candidate, plenty of adequate ones, and only the one really bad one. But I still chuckle to think about the look on that lady’s face after I jumped the big girl jumps and Phyllis called her out. Petty, I know, but so great.

I love Phyllis. She has YELLED at me before, like “what the F are you doing!” yelled, but it was warranted and so worth it. She made me better with the toughness, and is ready with the praise too when you deserve it. There are some great instructors that walk that line so well - that’s what makes them great.

[DaniW]

Well this is a tangent; but the worst I was ever yelled at was when I helped out my college dairy judging team by judging dairy cows when I was at an out of state judging contest. I was on the horse judging team but I like judging anything and jumped at the chance to do both.

Well when you do a judging contest you judge several classes of 4 animals each and 1 or 2 of the classes you judge you need to give reasons . Reasons are limited to 2 minutes and you compare and contrast the pairs to explain why you judged that way .

So, for horses, being short from eye to muzzle is a term we use but in cows you want the opposite- you want long from eye to muzzle.

I forgot that. I actually placed these cows correctly but I threw in short from eye to muzzle for the class of heifers.

The professor listening to my reasons just proceeded to rip me a new one , saying I didn’t have any right to be there , I had no business judging if I wasn’t to going to do the work to know what I was doing, etc etc. it was so over the top I was just shocked and dumbfounded. Bastard

[judybigredpony]

A very narsacistic overly body conscious male told me I was a Fat Cow…So,I sent him the photo of a cow sitting on a BMW …reported him to FB an moved on…
But I do know there is a culture that bullies their YR s about their weight as if it truly is a determine factor in how well,they ride. Coupled with the industry that designs and sells our riding clothing making the expensive and best designs unobtainable in Real body sizes. Yet people still beg to be bullied.
When my horse complains I will worry.

[bambam]

I have had two instructors that were nasty and belittling. One I dropped pretty quickly because who needs that crap. The other was my school’s IHSA coach so I had no choice but to suck it up and deal with her for a few years. They were both no names who were frustrated with the fact that they were not BNTs.
Have not had any abusive experiences with BNTs that I can remember (although I did get a “scheiste” from Walter Zetl but as far as I can tell, everyone gets at least one of those from him and it was well deserved lol ).

[smay]

The nastiest comments I ever heard in eventing all came from the dressage judge!