What's the meanest thing anyone has said to you as an eventer? (or wannabe)

[sirensong4]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;7648252]
I have been “snubbed” in group lessons, meaning that the instructor has just ignored me and given more attention to the younger riders and/or b.o. I see no reason for that, given that my horses and I have been competitive across levels.

So I just don’t go back. I will give my $$ and time to those who respect and care about my riding and my horses.[/QUOTE]

I have had this happen, and i respond the same way. I go one step further and will be perfectly honest if anyone asks me why I refuse to ride or lesson with so-and-so.

I’ve also been snarked about my riding ability and my horse (off breed/heavy horse) by “friends” in the eventing community who are passive-aggressively “just trying to help out.” That’s annoying, but I can deal with it. I’m a big girl.

I also got snarked by a trainer at the jump next to mine in warm-up at the last A show I went to. I’m in the air over a 0.95 meter fence and I hear “yeah that horse is cute but I wouldn’t ever jump it any higher than that.” I believe the trainer’s comment was in response to a student who thought my mare was dreamy so i chose not to cause a scene, even though i didn’t ask for her opinion.

[FrittSkritt]

Some of the most belittling “instruction” I’ve ever received was from a well-known Pony Club examiner in New England. Being downright rude and lacking social skills is not a substitute for “toughness,” yet for some reason PC kept using her. Last I heard, she threw a complete temper tantrum at an “A” rating because one of her students cut after the first day. :rolleyes:

[Trakehner]

I was visiting a friend’s barn and saw a 14 year old girl I know riding her horse in the indoor. She had some learning problems and was one of the loveliest riders and people I know. Very sweet. This Ahole of a Brit male wanted the ring to himself and was loudly talking about “that stupid idiot girl on her horrid horse”…she heard him and left the ring starting to tear up. He was on his horse warming up and I quietly walked in, grabbed him by the arm, dragged him off his horse and proceeded to thump him against the wall while explaining how life was going to change for him if he didn’t apologize to the girl and her horse (ala 3 Musketeers). He did…a typical bully, a coward.

[LaraNSpeedy]

I have worked with two high level trainers lately. One is well liked but I find her really sarcastic. And too much sarcasm wears on me . She comes off negative and the other one is very upbeat. So I just choose to go with the upbeat one.

Point is when it comes to instructors and trainers, we just need to find someone who suits our style and if they bully or are negative or play mean girl games, move on to a more professional person.

I have learned that a lot of professional horse people are very insecure and afraid of being wrong. Truth is we are all in love with horses. We are brothers and sisters in the horse world. I think a lot of people want to surround themselves with people who worship them not challenge them.

How many horses have I had to fix because they did not fit into someone’s cookie cutter training system? So I am always riding fixer upper horses so I know I am not often on horses that make me look good. I can’t be in it for other people’s approval. On the other hand I don’t need to subject myself to negativity either. I think we need to all smile and disarm people. Pay it forward that way but don’t pay instructors who bully.

[Cameraine]

[QUOTE=Trakehner;7654657]
I was visiting a friend’s barn and saw a 14 year old girl I know riding her horse in the indoor. She had some learning problems and was one of the loveliest riders and people I know. Very sweet. This Ahole of a Brit male wanted the ring to himself and was loudly talking about “that stupid idiot girl on her horrid horse”…she heard him and left the ring starting to tear up. He was on his horse warming up and I quietly walked in, grabbed him by the arm, dragged him off his horse and proceeded to thump him against the wall while explaining how life was going to change for him if he didn’t apologize to the girl and her horse (ala 3 Musketeers). He did…a typical bully, a coward.[/QUOTE]

Trakehner: Wow, just wow. You’re awesome.

[Cameraine]

The only other time I rode with a negative instructor I was riding at college with h/j trainer who just thought she was the sun, the moon and all the stars. I was at the lower end of rider ability in the group lessons. She did trust me with some of the more unpleasant horses but she never had a kind word, always made me feel like I was worthless and wrong. The Karma moment? Our college had a students only horse show. I asked her to pick out a mount for me and I got to ride him twice before taking him in a HUS class. Before the show I had been reading an article in Practical Horseman about the places or questions in a hunter round that get over looked. Mainly the extended trot and hand gallop, how no one did them correctly. I practiced on the horse I was to show and despite being in class with the most advanced, senior riders, I won. I truly believe I won in half because I had an excellent horse and having read the magazine article, not for any try on the trainers part because she never did with me.

Leaving the arena with my blue ribbon proudly waving from my horse’s bridle I passed her at the in-gate. You know she did not say one word, no good job, no nice ride, nothing. Had I not left college for other pursuits I would have switched to dressage or even western riding just to avoid her.

[FineAlready]

I’ve been riding pretty much my whole life (I’m 33), so I have too many to list probably. I’ve ridden with some really tough instructors, but tough instruction doesn’t bother me. Mean instruction does. Interestingly, I’ve only really ever been on the receiving end of “bullying” from trainers and other adult riders, which is pretty sad and disgusting. Growing up, I don’t really ever remember being bullied by other riders.

Here are a couple favorites:

“He’s doing exactly what you told him to do!” (Said by a trainer when my 5 year old horse landed from a jump with his nose between his knees bucking like a son of a gun - I almost fell off!)

“He doesn’t do that with ME!” (Said by same trainer regarding the same young horse getting heavy on the forehand. Well, duh, I hope he doesn’t do that with you - you are a professional that shows in the Grand Prix! Then when I asked her for suggestions to fix it, she told me “I can’t tell you how to fix it - you just need to figure it out.” Um, okay. Thanks?)

I had some loser adult go around telling half the barn that my horse “needs to be sold” because I had fallen off of him the prior day…second time I had come off the horse in 5 years of owning him…and I’d had him since he was 3!

[regalace]

I don’t know if I’d consider this bullying, exactly, but I dealt with some very ugly and dangerous behavior from a clinician once. (This was in the late '90s, I’ve been out of competing for some years so can’t comment on the current scene, and this was the only time something bad happened that I remember.) I went with one of my trainer’s younger students to an XC clinic with a BNT. I was college age and the other student was high school age. We were in the BN group; my horse and I were pretty experienced and bold, on the “move-up” end of that level, but this other girl was just starting out at BN and while a secure rider on a very appropriate and willing horse, did not have a lot of experience at that height, nor was her horse a schoolmaster who had done higher levels. The first day of the clinic, my horse had a stop at a drop with a rather muddy landing. I asked permission to go to a smaller drop beside it, to let him feel out the footing, and was denied permission; instead the clinician got behind the horse and smacked him with a leaf rake (having failed to bring a lunge whip out on course). I should have stopped it right there because I knew my horse wasn’t a stopper, but I, foolishly, rode through it and we eventually jumped down the bank–though it didn’t do any good to my horse’s confidence or my own. The next day the same thing happened to my friend and her horse. We were to go down a drop and continue to a log. As I rode through the exercise I realized the jump was a Training level height. I kicked on and my horse was fine, but my friend was very overfaced and had a stop. They tried for probably 15 or 20 minutes to get this horse and rider over the jump, including the clinician whacking the horse with the rake. The horse (a normally very steady soul) got more and more frightened and the rider more and more overfaced; I don’t remember if they actually got over the fence at all or not, but she stopped eventing shortly thereafter. Several other riders at the clinic had falls as well; it was a really bad situation for a clinic of primarily lower-level riders.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=Trakehner;7654657]
I was visiting a friend’s barn and saw a 14 year old girl I know riding her horse in the indoor. She had some learning problems and was one of the loveliest riders and people I know. Very sweet. This Ahole of a Brit male wanted the ring to himself and was loudly talking about “that stupid idiot girl on her horrid horse”…she heard him and left the ring starting to tear up. He was on his horse warming up and I quietly walked in, grabbed him by the arm, dragged him off his horse and proceeded to thump him against the wall while explaining how life was going to change for him if he didn’t apologize to the girl and her horse (ala 3 Musketeers). He did…a typical bully, a coward.[/QUOTE]

Marry me

[charismaryllis]

my horse (off breed/heavy horse)

OMG she’s adorable!

Sorry, carry on.

[tpup]

Mine wasn’t a coach, but a vet. I had just purchased my first horse - he wasn’t the most conformationally correct horse and he was very underweight when I got him, but he was super bombproof and a wonderful first horse. Had him 7 yrs and he colicked last year suddenly and passed away - I miss him every day. A few weeks after buying him, he had a lameness issue and I had a lameness vet out from a very good practice to help pinpoint the cause. I longed him for the vet and he did a full lameness exam. When I walked away to grab something from the tack room, he told my then-trainer, "I can’t believe she would spend this kind of money to investigate this guy - he’s basically a ‘rent-a-horse’. She told me this well after the visit and I never, ever used him again despite loving the vet practice he is with. What a jerk and a snob. BTW my “rent a horse” taught me to jump among many things, took me to my first dressage show when he was probably 20 something at that point - and was an Appy built like an OTTB LOL (and we got 4th place!!) and he gave me and my children 7 wonderful years of learning good horsemanship. So not a trainer, but a vet…sad that someone could be that cold to say something like that. And yep - I spent a ton of money on him. He was worth it to me!!

[retreadeventer]

OK…define “bullying” to you. I need this definition.

[Vindicated]

I am probably going to be hung at dawn for this.

I understand bullying-but is it possible that we all want sunshine blown up our butts? I come from Hunter land, and I know quite a few trainers are beyond horrid. However, I see far more riders that need a real trainer. Not someone that is going to keep telling them they are great and taking their money. Until they get bored, or really hurt themselves or their horse.

In 25 years of riding, I have had several tough trainers-they yelled, they swore and they told me I was an idiot. Because I was. I was pushed to learn from my mistakes, my tears, and my bruises.

[DaniW]

At the risk of having the trainer in question recognize herself, I’ll relate my on topic story. I was taking h/j lessons at a local college in my early forties a few years after my horse died. I admit I overestimated my skills not having realized that I’d be so out of practice since I had been just trail riding for 10 years when my horse was alive.

I think the trainer just thought I was a liar even though I wasn’t when I told her of my experience. So that’s kind of a reason for her to be skeptical of me but she still had no business to insist I ride a scared bolting tb at a jump and yell at me that I “was done” if I dared circle him in front of the jump again.

It freaked out the girl in the lesson with me too and made me afraid to insist on a controlled pace with other instructors until they reassured me that they didn’t want me jumping a out of control horse .

The thing was , this horse was afraid of my whip and I just wanted to set it aside a d proceed to the jump. She pissed me off so much I was like fine you want to scare me you just watch me jump this I race mountain bikes I’ve gone faster than this.

But a truly novice rider could have easily gotten seriously injured and it was a dangerous thing to do.

Funny thing is when I got a young event prospect a few years later she was training on her own at the different barn I was at and she was so nice , trying to get me to lesson with her. Hah, all the trainers want my horse but this trainer is not going to touch him or give me another lesson in a million years
P

[akor]

I would say the “meanest” thing that has happened was not a trainer, but a hunter judge, who was placed us well (1st, 2nd) in OF and flat classes. During a break, judge came up gushing about my horse and insisted on knowing the breed. Guesses all this fancy schmancy stuff and I said, "Saddlebred.’ Next set of classes, out of the ribbons. I find it hard to believe it was me or the horse, no one else though it all went to hell later…I consider it mean because it was the most blatant case of discrimination I had faced and was just so deliberate.

[Willesdon]

Turning this thread totally on its head, here is one the NICEST things said to me.

I was having a dressage lesson when a group of visitors, who were being shown around by the owner of the business, stopped to watch. It was a very focused and intense lesson with the trainer watching and just occasionally calling out a new movement that he wanted me to perform. Latter that evening, the owner reported the visitors’ conversation to me. “Ah” they said “now we understand how it works. The trainer calls out what the horse is to do and the horse does it!” How cool is that?

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=Vindicated;7655778]
I am probably going to be hung at dawn for this.

I understand bullying-but is it possible that we all want sunshine blown up our butts? I come from Hunter land, and I know quite a few trainers are beyond horrid. However, I see far more riders that need a real trainer. Not someone that is going to keep telling them they are great and taking their money. Until they get bored, or really hurt themselves or their horse.

In 25 years of riding, I have had several tough trainers-they yelled, they swore and they told me I was an idiot. Because I was. I was pushed to learn from my mistakes, my tears, and my bruises.[/QUOTE]

I think there is a difference between a trainer being tough and being mean, or bullying a student.

I don’t want someone giving me compliments I don’t deserve or blowing sunshine up my butt as you put it. I want someone who is going to push me, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable at first.

What I think people are talking about here are trainers who are mean to the point of being unprofessional. Here’s an example of the difference between a “good” kind of tough and a “bad” kind.

I went to a clinic and expressed concern that some of the jumps were higher than I thought I could do. Big mistake. lol. The clinician yelled at me and made me it multiple times, with tight turns, and complicated lines put together, all at the big height. At the end of the session, the clinician told me that they yelled at me because they could see I had a good base and was perfectly capable of doing everything they told me to. They said they knew the yelling was required to get me out of my comfort zone and do just do it.

That kind of yelling was productive because it produced results.

Not all yelling is productive however. What I consider mean, or at a minimum, very rude, are trainers who compare students to each other. As in “Why can’t you do it like so and so?”

[KayBee]

I haven’t experienced bullying myself, but rode at a barn that had quite a few instructors with a widely diverging approaches to teaching. :: ahem :: One in particular should not have ever been allowed to teach small children. Nooo patience and lots of yelling. It was one of those “should I take the parents aside and recommend the instructors at the barn who are actually GOOD with kids?” situations. I didn’t, because if that had gotten back to the barn owner, my ass would have been toast. But this person was not a BNT and therefore there seemed to be a limit to what most people would put up with. This person didn’t seem to have a steady client base so either the kids/parents wised up, or the kids lost interest in riding. No idea how that situation is progressing as I’m no longer at the barn. And I didn’t dislike this person, outside of cringing if I was having a lesson at the same time as they were teaching.

My current instructor is… blunt like a hammer. I have definitely heard “Oh my god. What are you DOING? No, no no!!!” And I also got the “Well, that was a nice HUNTER round” comment from her. But in context it cracked me up and her next comment was “do it again, with more forward.” (and I also believe it was a jab at hunters – sorry hunter peeps – as much as it was a comment on the need for more impulsion

But I don’t feel bullied or belittled. I firmly believe that she sees potential in people and gets irritated when they don’t make the most of it. In fact, when I rode like crap – maybe not crap, but certainly not WELL – this past Sunday, I felt like I’d let everyone down (my horse, her, and me).

I have not clinicked (cliniced? How does one spell that?) much and have little experience with BNTs. The worst I’ve experienced is “inattentive because you’re a beginner adult rider who doesn’t have money to spend.”

But if I were to define bullying in this context, I would say the following CAN qualify.

• Personalizing criticism, eg, criticism includes commentary on general intelligence, fitness, or body size (what are you, stupid?)
• Witholding praise or criticism
• Comparing riders to one another (look at Janie, she got her horse straight to the fence. Why can't you?)
• Unbalanced criticism, far more negative than positive (if there's not a lot positive to say, acknowledge what the rider is struggling with)
• General hostile or passive-aggressive behavior - eg, the "silent treatment" or refusing to acknowledge someone before a lesson/after a lesson/in the barn
• Also under hostile behavior is the "talking about you to others in the vicinity and pretending that they don't see you/aren't aware that you're there)

Sometimes it is a “I know it when I see it/experience it” thing; sometimes it isn’t bullying, it’s personality styles that don’t mesh or humor that doesn’t translate.

Actually, I shouldn’t have bothered to type any of the above: See below, taken from this site:

Signs of workplace bullying
The following signs of workplace bullying are adapted from research from the State University of New York and Wayne State University. While some of these behaviors may be isolated, if they form a pattern over time and are extreme, they may indicate workplace bullying:

Being left out from work-related social events
Coworkers storming out of the work area when you enter
Others regularly arriving late for meetings that you call
Being given the “silent treatment”
Not being given the praise you thought you deserved
Being treated rudely or disrespectfully
Coworkers refusing to help when you ask
Spreading rumors about you that aren’t true and that nobody denies
Being given little or no feedback about your performance
Others responding slowly to requests that were important to you
Being yelled or shouted at
Receiving put-downs about your intelligence or competence
Your telephone calls or other communications are ignored
Your contributions are ignored
Someone interferes with or sabotages your work
Being the recipient of mean pranks
Being lied to
Being denied a raise or promotion without a valid reason
Being given bigger workloads or shorter deadlines than coworkers
Being accused of making a mistake on purpose
A coworker throws a temper tantrum when you disagree with him
Being put down in front of others

[live2jump74]

I’ve never really experienced bullying from a trainer. Although I’ve had “tough” lessons but always ended on a good note with positive reinforcement.

I HAVE, however, experienced the negative result of the rumor mill that we all know exists in the horse industry which in and of itself is bullying on some level. Speculation, drama, lies, half-truths, etc. all are detrimental to our sport and the spirit in which our sport is based on. We are all too passionate about our horses and spend too much time, money and effort to be emotionally sidelined by this type of behavior.

This might be a good time to look at each one of ourselves and ask what can we do as individuals to make the horse industry a better place. If each one of us can do ONE THING to be intolerant to this type of behavior that we see and hear we would be moving in the right direction.

What can you do?

[cripplecreekfrm]

When I went to college I was luckily enough to go away locally, where I could still board my horse where I had always boarded and train with my trainer that I grew up with. The trainer for the college IHSA team that I rode with I knew and had shown against his kids for years, so he knew me, knew my mare and made a point of making me miserable to the point that I was in tears every ride. I finally told my personal trainer that I was going to quit the team. He pushed me to stick it out. I really think he had a conversation with the college trainer because things got better. I was used to being pushed as my personal trainer at the time was old school and I got screamed at alot but I had never been made to cry in public.

Now days I am having a hard time finding a trainer that is the right combination of pushing and being nice. Everyone that I try is so nice that I feel that I am not progressing. I need to be pushed and yelled at but no berated.