Where are the working students?

This and what @Texarkana said. @eightpondfarm with all due respect you are just now dipping your toes into an actual discipline with a trainer. You also have shown through your posts to have a big chip on your shoulder about people who do ride with trainers and show. You might want to listen to those of us who have been there and done that.

You are forming opinions about things based on assumptions and what seems like a place of bitterness. You could have been a working student. Not having a barn near by is an excuse. I didn’t have a barn near by. I moved.

22 Likes

I mean this kindly, @eightpondfarm, but I get the impression you don’t fully grasp what working student positions have become in the 21st century.

Once upon a time they were coveted riding positions offered by the most venerable of trainers to further develop talented riders.

Then some time in the late 90s/early 00s, just about every person who identified as a “trainer” from Olympians to people (badly) teaching up down lessons decided they needed to keep a few “working students,” regardless of whether they had anything to offer in exchange. And in many situations, the emphasis shifted from student to working with even “no riding” working student positions becoming a thing.

The OP, who is totally done with us :joy:, seems to be offering your classical working student position. But the market is so flooded with positions with the same title that she can’t even get bites.

I see more riders bring directed towards competitive riding in today’s society rather than your assertion that it’s less. While competition numbers are down, there are less opportunities to learn to ride in non-competitive settings. Kids are learning to post then getting entered in their first W/T class the next weekend. Dressage shows may not be jam packed with kids, but have you seen the number of entries at Pony Finals?!?

Kids aren’t going to stop wanting to learn to ride even as costs become prohibitive. So we are going to continue seeing these free labor working student positions because it’s many people’s only way to ride and compete and the only way many trainers can afford the help they need.

Yet those who exploit their free/cheap labor need a serious wake-up call. Personally, I’m tired of people who haven’t been in the trenches recently trying to make the exploitation sound good or virtuous by saying things like, “no one wants to work hard these days.” (And I don’t mean that at you personally, I’m yelling at the wind on that last part.)

37 Likes

I want to add, the best people I worked for told me to get a day job. These people are known and are doing what I still want to do. That always stuck with me.

9 Likes

Similar experience with a rider I used to clinic with. All of her working students were also studying something that wasn’t horses, so they had something to fall back on. She made sure they had enough time to do their studies as well as working.

It’s exactly what spurred me and my husband to go back to Uni and study to get jobs outside of horses. Life is a lot easier now that we have steady income and have been able to afford to do the things we want with our horses. Not having to work ourselves half to death rain, hail or shine with everyone else rank horses for a meagre living while our horses sit on the back burner.

Being a working pupil gave me the skills I needed for managing horses. But managing people and building connections is a lot harder without already having some form of financial backing. For the right position, it’s great to learn things when you’re younger. It’s not a career for being able to ride/compete your own horse, as well as owning a car and a house. Or even being able to eat something other than ramen noodles.

16 Likes

I am here so you needn’t talk to me as though I’m one of the younger generation for whom you need to show your superiority. Also, you needn’t talk to them or about them that way either. This is a you problem, not a them problem.

24 Likes

Out of curiosity, when was that?

I graduated from high school in 1987, for reference. That was in CA, at a good-ish public school. Divorced parents. Getting into college was billed as a necessity and/or cure-all for life. But getting into college wasn’t that complicated in my parents’ day, so neither really thought you should need tutors or editors to help you take the tests or write the essays it might take to get in. Both my parents went to Stanford. But they didn’t come from the well-connected East Coast prep school world.

I think board would have been $350 or 400/month at the private barn where I worked. Shoes might have been $80 for four steels, nothing special? I also had a W-2 job that I did on the couple of days a week after school that I wasn’t working at the barn. I made $5.25/hour, $0.05 over minimum wage. I would have needed to have a car to get to the barn (which I did
 which was why I needed the cash-paying W-2 job), but I don’t think I could have made the $650/month or so a horse would have cost to keep, plus pay for the car that I needed for the horse.

I used to work in higher ed, so I paid attention to how hard it has been to get into college and how much it costs for longer than most people have. I think it’s important for these discussion of “back in the day” and lazy kids today to be really accurate about differences between the times.

11 Likes

Late 90’s. I had a good job for a teen, worked at a coffee shop from 5AM - 7AM before school and made great tips. Then after school I would ride 3-5 pm and then work at the barn I rode at or baby sit. I made good money babysitting. Made very little working at the barn, but got to sit on a bunch of different horses.

In the summers I worked my mornings at the coffee shop and worked full time with my mom. She had a cleaning company and paid me minimal wage. She needed the help as it was beach rental season. We also bartered cleaning for lessons/boarding. Plus kept my babysitting gigs over the summer.

I never had time to spend money so saved a ton. No regrets on my end even though I missed all the fun teen stuff like skipping school, hanging out, parties, etc.

4 Likes

When did you do homework, etc?

2 Likes

Cross posting also in the racing forum. Here’s some reality in the training business. I believe he also had to sell his trophy from winning the triple crown years ago. Seattle Slew’s trainer

2 Likes

This is a sad commentary on the state of healthcare in this country.

9 Likes

While this is indeed sad, and I wish everyone well, the root issue is more related to costs of healthcare in the United States than working students and the salaries in the horse industry. There are other factors in this situation as well that we may not be aware of in respect of the person’s lifestyle choices. Nice to see people willing to support.

Not to derail the topic, please.

4 Likes

I posted this as I thought it related to how doing the horse thing, while it’s immensely satisfying when all goes well, if you don’t have a way to get and keep a substantial bank account, and good health insurance, your life, when you get older, can be pretty bleak

Wouldn’t you think a triple crown trainer would not end up in a situation where someone had to start a go fund me for him?

14 Likes

Sorry in advance for the tangent that’s slightly off-topic (Sorry OP, I think all the advice has already been provided and best of luck!) and for responding to a post probably made several days ago, I wandered on here and this stood out and the discussion generally seems to have taken a fascinating turn.

I mean depending on the discipline, etc. it always HAS been for the wealthy.

Look at the USET back when the riders HAD to compete as “amateurs” (though many worked in horses and just found loopholes). Most of the show jumping riders in, say the '50s or '60s came from, if not flat-out wealthy, well-off families. I admittedly wasn’t alive then but am pretty knowledgeable on history from that era of the sport, the show jumping riders from that early era in the first decade-ish after the cavalry disbanded were probably not like, Bezos-level Rich but their families had enough money these guys were riding and competing as children/teens during the Great Depression or WWII (so either most of the country didn’t have much money or everything was rationed).

Yes, horses didn’t cost as much back then but as my Grandma was known to say when kid me would ask her what things cost when she was a kid (e.g. Grandma, who’d have graduated HS in the mid-1930s, once told me ice cream cost a nickel) “A nickel was a whole lot more money back then.”

E.g. it’s pretty well-known that Bill Steinkraus grew up riding and competing (I am not slamming the late, great legend himself here at all but as a pretty solid example of a rider from the '50s and '60s who was at the top of his respective discipline). If I have my randomly accumulated useless horse history facts straight here, his family wasn’t like, Megabucks or anything, but his father was head of some sort of company or something, and they had enough money, during the Great Depression and the beginning of WWII, that they could have their son out riding and competing and winning trophies like the Maclay. Which put him on a pretty good track to, you know, being a USET rider and probably dang near the only full-fledged amateur on the team. Not to say the man didn’t have to work in some way or another nor to diminish his accomplishments but yeah, a lot of those riders in history we all look up to, were from comfortably well-off families, at least.

Another example - GM wrote in his autobiography that he knew basically nothing about horse care. He was a rider, nothing more, nothing less, he hired grooms, he’d always had grooms to do it all for him and yet he considered himself a stickler for horsemanship.

You (general you, rhetorical question) think the average family during the Depression or WWII could afford show fees, etc. for their teenaged kid?

Look - I will say I rode horses as a kid in the early 2000s and did not grow up “rich.” But yes I was better off than some of my friends were, even though I was in a single-parent household (mom worked full-time but had a college education and worked in a field that required said education, was raised by Mom and Grandma). I never missed a meal, always had a roof over my head, good quality clothes on my back, someone to give me a ride to wherever, a parent who was engaged, involved and caring, etc. Not everyone grows up with THAT much. Yes, horses are for the wealthy in that you can’t afford them unless the basics are covered and even then it can be a stretch for many.

We need to change the perception that our sport is for the wealthy but we also need to acknowledge that it exists for a reason and that yes, our sport is not easy to afford. I could go on but I’ve already written a lengthy post.

EDIT: Okay for modern examples - does anyone here really wanna tell me that all the current big names didn’t come from some amount of money or connections? Beezie Madden, with all due respect, had parents who were trainers, IIRC. Boyd Martin’s parents (and I say this as someone who is generally a fan of Boyd.) were both Olympians in other sports, so his family presumably had some degree of money, maybe not, again, uber-rich, but “could afford horses and for their son to pursue his dreams in the horse industry” money.

EDIT 2: I mean for god’s sake you guys people used to dress in their absolute finest to see and be seen at the National Horse Show. Men were wearing tailcoats and top hats to sit in the audience. Go watch some of the footage from the late '50s and early ‘60s that’s on the internet. I don’t think, if the history is anything to go by, that it’s a new, recent development that our sport is a "rich peoples’ hobby." :rofl:

EDIT 3: Will add western riding can be a different “vibe” so to speak. But even that ain’t always “affordable” to the masses. Especially in blinged-out disciplines like western pleasure.

EDIT 4: I do want to emphasize I mean no disrespect to most of the historic legends of the sport w/that point. Just refuting the “it’s now becoming a hobby for the rich” aspect. Bill Steinkraus was a legend and rightly so, I’ve nothing but respect for him and most of the riders of that era (GM excepted for obvious reasons). Just pointing out the obvious that given the era they came up in, none of them were probably from families that could’ve been construed as poor, working class, lower middle class, what have you.

19 Likes

Who knows. It is sad to see anyone die, especially of cancer.

But again
the situation is not directly tied to the horse industry. Unfortunately many “big names” in various walks of life die in poverty.

It is good that people are willing to support him with a go fund me. Wish all the best.

Medicare pays for hospice.

2 Likes

There’s a lot of money tied up in AQHA horses. It too is a rich man’s game based on who you know, who your trainer is, the bloodlines of your horse and who owned the stud.

3 Likes

Anyone interested in the “amateur” era might want to read this book, written by Jane Pohl’s son.

It’s a very well-written account of one woman’s determination to compete in the same ring as all the 1% on her Army remount.

3 Likes

Yup. And there are certain SSDI program rules set up specifically for people with advanced cancer, and they are automatically awarded benefits for some stage IV diagnoses.

@Bristol_Bay I will definitely check that book out!

Her story is inspiring, but like a handful of wonderful rags-to-riches showjumping stories, it was definitely the exception rather than the rule even then (otherwise there wouldn’t be a book about her), just echoing what others have said.

I do think in eras past, it was easier to get the kind of rough-and-ready experience which, coupled with talent, could lead to rides and connections with better trainers. But one critical aspect of horse riding as a sport, even more so than other disciplines, is that it requires riding a wide variety of horses to sharpen your skill set. In previous eras, people with access to stables where that was possible (or came from a family of trainers/riders) could gain that kind of experience far more easily.

And even then, I’ve seen trainers locally abuse this idea–using horses in their program that really aren’t safe. People need to learn first, so they can acquire the higher-level skills to enable them to effectively ride green horses. Because learning to ride well doesn’t mean just riding rank or inexperienced horses, but a mix of horses with quirks (those with skills and who are green).

4 Likes

Barn I grew up riding at, as I’ve related at other times on this forum, was very backyard and not in a good way.

When I was a teenager (older teen, this all started when I was 16 and I rode at this barn until I was in my early 20s and wised up and found something better, lesson kids were all 3-4 years younger than me, commonly) they took in some horses from a local neglect case and decided to be a “rescue” farm as well as a lesson barn. It was not uncommon at all for 13-14 year old lesson kids taught by an instructor who didn’t know half as much as she thought she did, to adopt a rescue horse from the rescue this barn had going, board it there and ride. These horses were typically green broke at best and instructor had one girl riding in draw reins who in hindsight, probably none of these people should’ve been near draw reins.

3 Likes