^^^ - sorry! You are exactly right! :o CSHA is “evolving” and CWHBA is “distinct”
Now the interesting part is how long do they have to create the 6 or 7 generations?
NO idea and I dont know if that is even specified anywhere???
[QUOTE=Fancy That;7282752]
Erin - OMG, sorry to digress but you have a Morgan x Trak cross??? Love that you are breeding (or were) with a drop of Morgan 
I know it’s unconventional but I think Morgans are the most amazing horses (I’m biased of course) and I love seeing them used in Sport
That pinto by Sempatico is beautiful! Bet noone would have guessed him to be 1/4 Morgan :)[/QUOTE]
I don’t get to take credit for breeding her. I bought her when she was about 15 or so because I just had such a ball riding her - I didn’t actually know her breeding at all when agreed to buy her! She’s now 28 and very sway-backed, but still the sweetest horse ever, though I don’t ride her anymore. I actually got an email from her breeder out of the blue a couple of years ago. His daughter had done a Google search using my mare’s dam’s name and came across our website. They were very excited to see her there as they’d kept her for several years and then lost track of her. The goal had been to create a dressage horse with more size than the Morgan dam (who was only 14.2 or 14.3, I believe) and so they bred to Pregelstrand. Peanut didn’t quite meet their expectations, being only 15.1 on a tall day. Her Morgan half is old Government lines: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/seville8 When I took her to the RPSI inspection with that Sempatico foal, she scored well-enough to make the Main Mare book, but obviously couldn’t due to the Morgan half of her pedigree - that meant that Monte only got a half-brand, but that’s ok with me - he got a Gold Premium score (I think the only one given at that particular inspection) and Otto really liked him and asked if I was re-breeding the mare to Sempatico (sadly, no).
Interesting discussion. I suppose the title of the thread and content of the post were a bit confusing and I guess I should clarify. I don’t see many “colored” horses either in upper levels of sport or even at the local level, excepting ponies. There do seem to be quite a few colored ponies at the local level.
One would think, though, that as long as these horses have been bred and as often, more would be working their way up the levels now. I can’t find anything on Limet Hurry past PSG in 2010 and nothing on any of his offspring.
I’ll work my way through some of the other links provided.
I find it particularly curious that TC gets email requests for a certain # of socks, etc. I genuinely cannot imagine buying a horse that way.
But, then, I’ve always bought for performance.
[QUOTE=Erin Pittman;7284708]
. The goal had been to create a dressage horse with more size than the Morgan dam (who was only 14.2 or 14.3, I believe) and so they bred to Pregelstrand. Peanut didn’t quite meet their expectations, being only 15.1 on a tall day. .[/QUOTE]
I have seen a few really lovely Morgan crosses - there are a few breeders out here (NorCal) that have done some Morgan/Tbred crosses that are fabulous athletes - eventers that are quick, nimble, and sound!
I bred a Morgan mare to Cadence (Friesian/WB) hoping for a smaller dressage horse, and ended up with an eventer - he is 5 now, and he and his owner are eventing Novice and working their way up the jumps sizes. An international eventer she clinics with said he is uber-athletic and honest and told her to never sell him! That little gelding is another example of a colored horse (he is bay pinto) that is out there showing, but really just in his first year. I think Morgans are really an under-appreciated breed - very athletic, capable horses (I know that is slightly off topic)…
I find it particularly curious that TC gets email requests for a certain # of socks, etc. I genuinely cannot imagine buying a horse that way.
Truly. Even to the extent of:
“I love the look of your former stallion Panoramic. Do you have one that looks just like him - the height, the chrome, etc - but in buckskin?” or “Do you have something that looks like Faux Finish except in palomino?”
I think for many, buying a horse is something they have invested a lot of emotion into and it is the culmination of a dream, so they will search for the perfect horse that meets their ideal of what they want. We all choose our riding partners based on certain criteria and parameters and I guess for many, the visual gratification is a large part of their buying decision
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;7284997]
One would think, though, that as long as these horses have been bred and as often, more would be working their way up the levels now. [/QUOTE]
They are working their way up. Before Silverwood/Liz Hall/Art Deco, I don’t think there were very many at all. Not here in the US anyway. AD brought color into the world of being ok, though even that took a while. I think it’s been a steep learning curve - many years going by with only marginal increases in popularity.
Now that color seems to be an in thing, at least in the sporthorse world (and relatively speaking), there are indeed people who are demanding performance over color even while seeking color. The ante has been upped, and it’s just going to take a long time to get enough quality, colored offspring on the ground AND in the hands of those who have the talent and $$ to get to the upper levels.
I think what I have found interesting as well in recent years is the quality of mares that have specifically sought out my stallion to breed to so that a) they could get the best match for that particular mare b) they could possibly produce something to take them into “The Big Ring” and lastly - c) so they could also get the palomino or buckskin they’ve always coveted
Mares that are the dams of currently competing GP level dressage horses. Mares that are owned by FEI level GP dressage riders that are slated for the GP ring themselves. PSG level dressage mares. Respected breeders who produce offspring for the UL’s who had the option of thousands of fabulous stallions out there
They all had “colour” as something equally as important to them in their breeding decisions
Interesting indeed …
… not sure if this has already been mentioned, but horses of “color” stick out and are noticed. Judges will remember them in a sea of bays they see all day long and that could be an advantage or not…
Ditto here. My Morgan is palomino, but I was NOT looking for color when I started shopping. It just happens that there’s a good overlap between breeders of colored Morgans and breeders of “using”/sport Morgans. The breed show part of the Morgan community is very traditional and tends to not like color except in the western horses; a lot of those folks still thing color is a sign of “stock blood.” Never mind that Morgans contributed a lot to early (pre-AQHA) ranch horse breeding, and vice versa. When I’m shopping again – which hopefully won’t be for a while – I still won’t be shopping for color, but I might get it.
Over the long path I’ve had with my mare, I’ve discovered that more than anything, I want to promote the breed – to ordinary horsepeople and people in general. Having an eye-catching horse who is a bit of a show-off really helps with that.
TrueColours, how old are the first crop of GG’s offspring now?
TrueColours, how old are the first crop of GG’s offspring now?
He’s a 1998 stallion
I bought him in 2009 and leased him for a couple of years before that so I dont have any complete data on who he was bred to before that, how many mares, what breeds, what they’re doing now, etc, but I “believe” he was bred as either a 3 or 4 year old so that would put his oldest offspring at 10-11 years old right now
This is an interesting topic and has been discussed in the past. Quarter horses are warmbloods. Appys are warmbloods.
Like it or not, warmblood is a horse with TB blood somewhere in its pedigree…
I am not sure about Arabians, but we can follow the pedigrees to 16 century…? Arabians and what we call “stock” mares started the Thoroughbred stud books as known today.
Warmblood registries are a different thing. One can take an OTTB and pay $$$ and get it registered as whatever warmblood ;-)) at least in the US.
Is Trakehner the only exception and they have their own closed stud book?
Warmblood registries are a different thing. One can take an OTTB and pay $$$ and get it registered as whatever warmblood ;-)) at least in the US.
Is Trakehner the only exception and they have their own closed stud book?
Nope.
You can only register a horse once, legitimately. A Tb is registered already.
So an OTTB can possibly get breeding approval with some registries, if she is good enough.
Trakheners, Holsteiners, and to a lesser extent Hanoverian are mostly closed. They only except particular outside horses to their books. Traks being the most closed accepting only some Arabs and Tbs.
There are some NA registries that have accepted whatever but that is not true of all the associations and they should not be lumped together. I think there is room for both a Sport Horse registry and a proper WB registry that follows traditional methods.
Ummm, no? Adding TB to another breed doesn’t make it a Warmblood, or even a warmblood. Perch x TB is NOT a warmblood and most definitely not a Warmblood. TB x Mongolian is not a wb or WB.
QHs and Apps and Morgans are as close to a “warmblood” as the US has, but that doesn’t make them one.
I am not sure about Arabians, but we can follow the pedigrees to 16 century…? Arabians and what we call “stock” mares started the Thoroughbred stud books as known today.
Arabians are a hot blooded breed. Nothing warmblood about them, not even when crossed with a TB.
Warmblood registries are a different thing. One can take an OTTB and pay $$$ and get it registered as whatever warmblood ;-))at least in the US.
AWS and AWR allow registration of “any breed or combination thereof”. That doesn’t make the horse a warmblood, and certainly not a Warmblood. If it’s a JC-registered TB, he’s STILL a TB. And it certainly doesn’t apply to “registered as whatever warmblood”. There is no other WB registry which will allow double registration, and since an OTTB is JC-registered…
Is Trakehner the only exception and they have their own closed stud book?
They do have a closed book, but that’s irrelevant in the above 
TBs can still be used in Trak breeding programs (as well as Arabs), but that doesn’t mean they are registered Trak.
[QUOTE=siegi b.;7286469]
… not sure if this has already been mentioned, but horses of “color” stick out and are noticed. Judges will remember them in a sea of bays they see all day long and that could be an advantage or not… :-)[/QUOTE]
If your horse goes REALLY well it will work in your favor and the judge won’t forget you…if your horse goes badly…you are screwed for the whole show because the judge won’t forget or forgive you!!! JME!
The same could be said about the bay horse with 4 high whites and big face white
[QUOTE=TrueColours;7291724]
He’s a 1998 stallion
I bought him in 2009 and leased him for a couple of years before that so I dont have any complete data on who he was bred to before that, how many mares, what breeds, what they’re doing now, etc, but I “believe” he was bred as either a 3 or 4 year old so that would put his oldest offspring at 10-11 years old right now[/QUOTE]
Any news on what his offspring is doing? Since you have had him, he has coming 4 year olds?
So I am probably the minority here, but I would kill for a plain bay or chestnut. All of my own horses are grey (one a TB rescue and 2 warmbloods) My husband’s horse is black and I told him when we were looking that we were NOT getting a grey no matter what. I don’t have any prejudice, but I do find certain patterns distracting at times. This mostly goes towards the pintos as the lack of symmetry on a dressage horse makes it hard to discern irregularities in gait for me. I personally hate uneven height or number of socks as well for the same reason. It wouldn’t stop me from buying a horse but it does visually make it hard to evaluate the moving horse at times.
I think some of the dilute colors are very pretty, but wouldn’t sway me as far as purchasing. I think that the quality of the colored warmbloods has improved but still has some catching up to do to be on par with the UL horses we see today. I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that the dilute colors in most warmbloods comes fro, TB influence? It is very rare to have a super quality TB to use in WB breeding programs much less have it be dilute, or even more rare DD. This makes it difficult to add color to WB because in the instances of a dilute (palamino, buckskin, smokey black) that gene is only passed on 50% of the time. Thus the odds are stacked against the influx of dilute warmbloods suitable for the UL. The pintos seem to have lost popularity a bit from 15 years ago. I couldn’t say why.
As far as my horse desires go, give me a stunning mover with good confirmation, and a great temperament not too tall, not too short and God willing make it dirt colored.
Any news on what his offspring is doing? Since you have had him, he has coming 4 year olds?
There are many showing (4 years and older as well) and some that are division Champions and Reserve Champions in their discipline / divisions. Dressage, hunter, jumper, eventing. The whole gamut
They arent “just” palomino or buckskin - they actually go out there and compete and win, the same as many other dilutes, pintos and spotted horses …
[QUOTE=TrueColours;7292573]
There are many showing (4 years and older as well) and some that are division Champions and Reserve Champions in their discipline / divisions. Dressage, hunter, jumper, eventing. The whole gamut
They arent “just” palomino or buckskin - they actually go out there and compete and win, the same as many other dilutes, pintos and spotted horses … ;)[/QUOTE]
That’s great that they are out there competing; seeing a palomino in the ring always catches my eye and I usually go up and ask the rider about the breeding if it looks like it moves well enough to be something other than a QH. I have had two pinto Irish Sporthorses (a piebald and a skewbald) and they certainly get noticed! My skewbald mare was purchased by an amateur dressage rider largely because she liked the colour.
However, with respect to your post about Guaranteed Gold, the fact that none of his offspring are competing at the UPPER levels of any discipline is highlighted. If his oldest foals are 10 or 11, they should be making their way up there if they are capable. That’s not to say that there might not be a few that are capable of higher level competition that are in the hands of riders without the drive or capability to ride beyond the lower levels. I notice, though, that you repeatedly brag about the achievements of one of GG’s offspring who is eventing at Pretraining. Maybe he will go on to be an upper level horse, but as far as I’m concerned, any horse can event successfully at Pretraining.
So why is it that these horses are not at the UPPER levels? Don’t get me wrong, I love the unusual colours. One of my dreams is to breed myself a palomino that will make it to the upper levels of eventing; I’ve been keeping an eye on the cremello and palomino Thoroughbred stallions for this reason. Is it because they just do not have the quality to produce top level horses? In the dressage or jumper arenas, this seems plausible. But surely an athletic TB stallion bred to a good mare could result in a horse that could make a go of it at the higher levels of eventing in the hands of a capable rider. This may seem like a lot of caveats, but that is true of any horse produced with the top levels in mind. Is it that upper level riders or those who breed for the upper levels don’t like the colour? Believe me, if I could have an Advanced horse in a palomino wrapper, I would be all over it! :lol:
