[QUOTE=riderboy;6467307]
I agree, perhaps then CMP should have been sleeping with a dressage trainer as well? .[/QUOTE]
Been there, done that, married her.
[QUOTE=subk;6467320]
Been there, done that, married her.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
Not much more I can add here – Bornfree is pretty right on with what I saw today.
I would like to say how impressed I was with the sheer ability of our team’s riders. Karen in particular rode an absolutely awesome course on a horse not at all suited to such a venue. I think her round was truly inspiring. Boyd was also fabulous and for being the very first person over these jumps, which later turned out to be such a carnage-producer, I think you have call his ride brilliant as well. Phillip did well to get as few time faults as he did. Tiana found out quickly that the Master Imp was coming out, and she rode like a madwoman, thank goodness. She did a GREAT job getting that horse around today bec. he did not want to play. Of all our riders, I was most disappointed in Will’s half-ass suck back on the big drop. That was his error, not his horse’s in that he over throttled down and didn’t commit. However he was not the only one to mis-guess that drop, some pretty fantastic riders missed perfection there, too. Given the circumstances, and the fact that we probably could have used about 15 more points in the dressage, our finish on what we sent to London is what was expected. However individually I am extremely proud of our riders and what they did. It was a team effort and all gave it the emphasis and skill it deserved. I am very proud of them and hope all pass the jog and they all jump clear tomorrow. I am not at all ready to criticize or throw in the towel. It was a great effort by all and deserves our praise.
[QUOTE=poltroon;6467141]
I am thrilled to see the British doing so well - they have earned it. The home advantage is a big help when it means that the sponsors step up to get great horses to the riders and extra competition opportunities, as it’s clear has happened for them.[/QUOTE]
True, but the US team was the beneficiary of sponsors stepping up, too. Mystery Whisper and Mr. Medicott were recent purchases for PD and KOC, bought with the Olympics in mind.
Kristina Cook, Nicola Wilson were riding their horses before the 2004 Olympics. Zara Phillips started High Kingdom out at Intro in 2007. Mary King got Imperial Cavalier in 2007. And Lionheart? William Fox-Pitt rode him in his first PN in 2008.
These were all long-time, long-term partnerships. Team GB didn’t need to do any carpetbagging to field a strong team. Nor did Germany.
HIgh Kingdom is at least 75% TB. Butts Abraxxas is 94% TB. So 4 of the horses who made the time were either TB or mostly TB. Given how many of the horses were mostly WB, the fewness of TB or high percentage TB in the starters I think showed that the TB with decent dressage is still the best horse for the UL of eventing.
On the dressage thing, we left Becky Holder home. Kim Severson hasn’t had a horse ready for the level. We do have riders who can be internationally competitive in eventing dressage AND XC, but they weren’t on the team.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6467355]
HIgh Kingdom is at least 75% TB. Butts Abraxxas is 94% TB. So 4 of the horses who made the time were either TB or mostly TB. Given how many of the horses were mostly WB, the fewness of TB or high percentage TB in the starters
.[/QUOTE]
I disagree with your implications…most of the WBs at eventing today DO have high percentage of blood. I bet if you run the percentages…most are more then 50%blood with a large percentage being more than 75%. So yes…while “WBs” they are still high in percentage of TB or AA blood.
So while there were a lot of WBs today…most are high percentage blood. There was not a “fewness of TBs or high percentage TBs” in the starters.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6467355]
HIgh Kingdom is at least 75% TB.[/QUOTE]
High Kingdom is 15/16th TB and is the full sibling to KOC’s Mandiba.
Who really thinks that it would be in CMP’s best interest to send a highly tuned up team to compete in his homeland against his home team which included his daughter? Especially since he only has one more day in his current job?
The USA team performance was not below my expectations. It was what I expected. From the time of the last selection, I did not feel we had sent a medal team.
We need a new coach. We need a new selection committee, and a new strategy for selections. We need some new faces on the team as well.
What is a butt-kicker always-top pair in the USA is about 12th-15th place in international competition. On a good day. The rest of the US pairs are somewhere below that in the placings in international competition.
The pipeline of future team members: From early lessons on up through the levels, we need better instruction in the US and a different picture of what riding is supposed to be for eventing. What passes for an instructor in these United States is kind of alarming (in some cases.) Anyone can hang out a shingle - and does. They have students who are on course and influencing what eventing is in the US.
So, for a number of reasons, what I’ve seen since Saturday is pretty much what I thought I’d see.
I would like to see better. But before that can happen some huge egos have to be moved out of the way.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;6467362]
I disagree with your implications…most of the WBs at eventing today DO have high percentage of blood. I bet if you run the percentages…most are more then 50%blood with a large percentage being more than 75%. So yes…while “WBs” they are still high in percentage of TB or AA blood.
So while there were a lot of WBs today…most are high percentage blood. There was not a “fewness of TBs or high percentage TBs” in the starters.[/QUOTE]
That seems to be less and less true as the short format years go by.
I may do a spreadsheet with the horses who have a TB parent or grandparents and the percentages. My first impression, though, is that of the finishers and not the fallers, the ones with most TB close did the best XC. Both Clayton Fredericks and his wife went to pure WB for these Games and look how it ended up for them.
I think the fact that Phillip Dutton and Boyd Martin were not able to get their horses around within the time says something.
It’s not just % TB, but I think how close the TB actually is.
[QUOTE=voltaire51147;6466839]
… SJ is yet to come. Why not wait until then to start complaining.[/QUOTE]
Because for the US the team competition is already over. So we can start complaining now. 
We have a shot at some individual medals, with our imported Australians and Karen. So I can wait till after the SJ to start complaining about why we only have 1 born-raised-rider within 15 or so points of the top spot.
At this point, I think Sinead’s bar tab benefit could be spread around to Allison, Will F, Clark, etc. [Our selection committee lives in fantasy-land.] BUT they all got some experience over in the UK. Maybe some of these riders will stick in England for awhile and meet the competitive standards there. Then come home and show us. 
[QUOTE=fatorangehorse;6467298]
Not scared to post or admit I ride dressage now (FEI level) after years of eventing including FEI - but not 4*.
I changed “abysmal” - that was all very fair feedback. I tend to be dramatic in general. Sorry if that inflamed.
Anyway, my comment was as a spectator. I do not want to take away the hard work of the many people involved - riders and otherwise. I just wonder what we need to change to be more competitive.
Training? Breeding? US competitions - what would help in your opinions?[/QUOTE]
One of the things our kids need is more miles in the saddle on good horses. And maybe we could do that without a string of sacrificial advanced horses. Imagine a camp for all ages of promising up and comers where you could ride two 4th level dressage horses, gallop a couple of two year old race horses, go out cross-country schooling at training/prelim level, and then have two Level 4 jumpers to school - every day for a month?
All those horse types are plentiful enough that it would take is money, and the people who got through it would either love the sport forever or realize they’re not cut out for the big time.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6467374]
That seems to be less and less true as the short format years go by.
I may do a spreadsheet with the horses who have a TB parent or grandparents and the percentages. My first impression, though, is that of the finishers and not the fallers, the ones with most TB close did the best. Both Clayton Fredericks and his wife went to pure WB for these Games and look how it ended up for them.[/QUOTE]
Well here is Wega. Currently tied for 1st. She is 54% blood and did pretty well today
It’s worth noting that William Fox-Pitt, who routinely cleans our clock at Rolex, didn’t make the top 20. 
Goodness, this thread rankled this morning. Probably because my country, of strong fantastic eventers, had two people fall off. Just a bit crushed over here.
How could you be underwhelmed with three riders in the top twenty and all riders around clear? Couldn’t you be a bit more supportive? It’s not even over yet and you’ve got this thread up! We had two people fall off, and I can promise you the Australian eventing fans are saying how proud we are of our team anyway and how we’ll be back better than ever. Not ripping them apart for falling off. Also, what do you expect? Why does the US have to be the best at everything??? You have a great team (two Australians and Heath Ryan’s horse- just saying’) can’t you just be happy with that and wait and see how they go?
You people are strange.
Sorry if that sounds really harsh, I had about four hours sleep and the rest of the night was spent watching cross country nightmares, I am not my perkiest 
[QUOTE=JER;6467353]
True, but the US team was the beneficiary of sponsors stepping up, too. Mystery Whisper and Mr. Medicott were recent purchases for PD and KOC, bought with the Olympics in mind.
Kristina Cook, Nicola Wilson were riding their horses before the 2004 Olympics. Zara Phillips started High Kingdom out at Intro in 2007. Mary King got Imperial Cavalier in 2007. And Lionheart? William Fox-Pitt rode him in his first PN in 2008.
These were all long-time, long-term partnerships. Team GB didn’t need to do any carpetbagging to field a strong team. Nor did Germany.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Teams GB & Germany had veterans all around. Olympics medalists, European champions, people who have been around so many 4*'s it becomes more like second nature.
Teams GB & Germany were not the yellow school bus. They came to win, unlike the US. That meant packing on all the firepower. As solid as some of those competitors are, stuff happens (as it did to Clayton Fredericks omg.) Another rock-solid score has to be ready to take the place of the unexpected shortfalls.
Geez Luweez WFP is a DROP SCORE for GB at this moment. That is HOW GOOD that team is, front to back, top to bottom. That is what brings the medals home, Olympics after Olympics, WEG after WEG, championship after championship. There is no room for fantasy selections. “No place for beginners or sensitive hearts.”
The announcer referred to riders by whether they had ever before been on the “senior championship team,” in his words. See what that means? :yes:
[QUOTE=madamlb;6467385]
Goodness, this thread rankled this morning. Probably because my country, of strong fantastic eventers, had two people fall off. Just a bit crushed over here.
How could you be underwhelmed with three riders in the top twenty and all riders around clear? Couldn’t you be a bit more supportive? It’s not even over yet and you’ve got this thread up! We had two people fall off, and I can promise you the Australian eventing fans are saying how proud we are of our team anyway and how we’ll be back better than ever. Not ripping them apart for falling off. Also, what do you expect? Why does the US have to be the best at everything??? You have a great team (two Australians and Heath Ryan’s horse- just saying’) can’t you just be happy with that and wait and see how they go?
You people are strange.
Sorry if that sounds really harsh, I had about four hours sleep and the rest of the night was spent watching cross country nightmares, I am not my perkiest :D[/QUOTE]
Your team has a very, very different history. It is in a completely different situation. Different issues.
You are rightly proud of your group. They are outstanding, and many in this country admire them greatly and look to them as examples of the best riding.
We have another situation over here. For some strange reasons. So, yeah, we’re gonna talk about it. It’s been an ongoing conversation for some time, and needs to be aired further. Support is eroding for the same train wreck over and over.
Take care and enjoy the rest of the games!
According to Horse Telex, Flying Finish is 58.20% xx/xo and Bendigo is 40.23%. (Compared to the 20-45% range of the US Dressage and Show Jumping horses.)
To have a stop at the offset verticals is unacceptable at this level. That is a question asked at the top-level equitation finals (Medal, Maclay, USET Talent Search) at close to the same height (3’6" - 3’9"). Granted there are many other factors - beginning of the course, amped up horse, for instance. But the equitation horses are dealed with a spooky stadium under lights with limited warm up areas, too. What happened to left leg, right leading rein to avoid the run out? I’m not saying the riders who had run outs here are akin to 16 year old Maclay riders, but the option wouldn’t have more than a second longer and at this level you should know if your horse isn’t honest through his left shoulder. Sigh. To me that was not a forgiveable mistake. Will and the drop fence? Disappointing, but perhaps forgiveable.
Yes, I know about Wega. However, he comes from a generations long home breeding program specifically for eventing. There are very few of those around.
