[QUOTE=Anne FS;6469464]
Link? or thread name?[/QUOTE]
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361457&highlight=Dressage&page=2
About halfway down the page the conversation becomes specific about the competition.
Merci beaucoup, fooler.
Have to laugh at getting this judge’s comment: “Not this horse’s finest hour.”
I disagree about the well trained dressage horse translating to the well balanced x/c horse. The 2 ways of riding are different, the horses’ frames are different, the footing and the topography are diffferent.
As someone who comes from jumperland, and who helps my rider ride my horse in the ring (I defer to specialists in dressage and x/c jumping, but “hire myself” for the SJ practice), when I see her warm up in a dressage frame, I am constantly telling her to prepare the horse to JUMP, not get collected into a sitting trot frame.
This means developing elasticity in stride length while maintaining impulsion, while riding in in a half seat. It means cantering rollbacks with a lot of outside leg. It means cantering up and down hills and staying in balance while galloping at speed.
That cannot be taught in a dressage ring, in a dressage saddle, in a dressage frame. It is an entirely different set of skills the horse needs to learn.
Just envision a dressage horse trying to hand gallop over uneven terrain. Not a pretty picture.
Ringwood Magister has proven himself to be able to play with the top Europeans in dressage when he is on. Twizzel also has the potential to put in a big score. Otis has improved by leaps and bounds this year and an accurate test should put him just out of the top echelon.
I think we have the horses, but as many others have said, the US needs a full-time dressage coach. There is no reason we can’t lay down great tests with the horses we have.
Mystery Whisper didn’t prove that he could play with the big boys in Europe. His results at Barbury Castle were not sterling, nor were his results this weekend. He also has never made the time at 4* level. He’s really much more of a 3* horse.
He’ll be great for Arden Wildasin, though.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6469582]
I disagree about the well trained dressage horse translating to the well balanced x/c horse. The 2 ways of riding are different, the horses’ frames are different, the footing and the topography are diffferent.
As someone who comes from jumperland, and who helps my rider ride my horse in the ring (I defer to specialists in dressage and x/c jumping, but “hire myself” for the SJ practice), when I see her warm up in a dressage frame, I am constantly telling her to prepare the horse to JUMP, not get collected into a sitting trot frame.
This means developing elasticity in stride length while maintaining impulsion, while riding in in a half seat. It means cantering rollbacks with a lot of outside leg. It means cantering up and down hills and staying in balance while galloping at speed.
That cannot be taught in a dressage ring, in a dressage saddle, in a dressage frame. It is an entirely different set of skills the horse needs to learn.
Just envision a dressage horse trying to hand gallop over uneven terrain. Not a pretty picture.[/QUOTE]
I was going to disagree with you until I read your entire post. 
Now I think I agree.
So many people on these threads are saying we need to improve our dressage, as the entire solution to beating the Europeans. I disagree, insofar as we need to have really good consistent XC riders & horses, who can do dressage and SJ too. All of the Brits came home clean XC. All of the Germans came home clean XC. And when they do that, they can take their best scores and trounce the other nations who are relying on their 3 scores who hopefully had clean XC with few time penalties.
I think the emphasis on dressage is affecting us negatively because we are producing too many dressage superstars who don’t turn out to be good XC horses and riders at CCI*** and above. If we weren’t weeding out so many potentially good XC horses at Prelim and below because they aren’t winning the dressage with scores of 75%, then we might have more Opposition Buzz’s at the top. IMHO
And showjumping. Look where KOC’s rounds put her by the finish.
Blugal and Lord HelpUs. You are both on right track. The Brits and the Germans look very comfortable going at speed across country. And their horses handled the footing/ground well. It strikes me that they are used to working outside on uneven ground, a lot. Watch videos of eventing in England, at any level, they know how to move and they learn early.
So maybe our UL riders should skip a few events and go fox hunting, race riding or something to repair this hole in our training.
Sometimes the things that you type make me shake my head. You have no idea what he is, or that he is capped at 3*.
He came from Heath Ryan 6 months ago. Heath has had multiple strokes which have affected his riding, so not surprising the horse has not had stellar results at ****. He had never been outside Australia before coming to Philip.
Philip has had the horse for 6 months. Horse clocked around XC and had a couple of rails. Seems to me the horse could be a darned fine 4* horse with a little time w/Philip.
He finished one 4* with Heath Ryan in Australia in 2010 and did well. He was eliminated at Adelaide in 2009. I don’t know when Heath Ryan started having stokes. Horse had time penalties, albeit not many, this weekend. This was his second 4*, and he did not do well in the showjumping AT ALL. He was also exhausted when he finished this short course. He had time at Barbury Castle, which is a relatively long 3*. If PD doesn’t bring a horse clear and within the time XC, there is something amiss. He is the master of double clear.
And, yes, I’m aware that the horse may not have been pushed at Barbury Castle, but PD usually takes no prisoners XC.
The horse is a confirmed 3* superstar. I just happen not to think that he is a real 4* horse. You do. Opinions differ. Now if they’d done Rolex . . .
[QUOTE=wanderlust;6469678]
Heath has had multiple strokes which have affected his riding, so not surprising the horse has not had stellar results at ****. He had never been outside Australia before coming to Philip.[/QUOTE]
You are both wrong.
Mystery Whiper’s FEI record:
https://data.fei.org/Result/CompetitionSearch.aspx?p=F63AF8E1D3FA3119F75850DFD4271AF449EB634D52610F40E7070607DE65F83ADA07872B2ABD3FCCED536176709F74DE
The correct order of things:
E at Aledaide**** in Nov of 2008
Ryan had a stroke late May of 2009
E at Adedaide**** Nov of 2009
4th at Adelaide****Nov of 2010
So E’d at the 4* level before and after stroke, one 4* top 10 after. He did quite well at the 3* level after the stroke until Ryan’s last 2 events with him where he was E and +20.
He’s lovely and PD does quite well with him and some day he might be a 4* super star, but he is not a confirmed 4* horse.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6469701]
The horse is a confirmed 3* superstar. I just happen not to think that he is a real 4* horse. You do. Opinions differ. Now if they’d done Rolex . . .[/QUOTE]
The Olympics is not a 4* event.
What’s your point?
Not to split hairs, but I simply said Heath had been the victim of strokes (two, by some news reports), which probably contributed to less than stellar results. Some quick googling found that some Australians actually give Whisper credit for taking good care of Heath XC post-stroke. And he definitely doesn’t have an FEI record outside Australia prior to coming to the US- I looked it up too.
Agreed that he is a lovely horse, and think we should give him the benefit of the doubt before declaring him a dud at 4*. 
[QUOTE=wanderlust;6469896]
Agreed that he is a lovely horse, and think we should give him the benefit of the doubt before declaring him a dud at 4*. :)[/QUOTE]
The selectors gave 4 out of 5 team horses the “benefit of the doubt” concerning their prior XC experience 4* and people are surpised things didn’t go well? Murphy resides at the Olympic venues. We left the only 3 US horses to jump 2 4* last year on the sidelines. One they didn’t even put on a single USEF “list” because she typically scores low to mid 50s in dressage.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6469582]
I disagree about the well trained dressage horse translating to the well balanced x/c horse. The 2 ways of riding are different, the horses’ frames are different, the footing and the topography are diffferent.
As someone who comes from jumperland, and who helps my rider ride my horse in the ring (I defer to specialists in dressage and x/c jumping, but “hire myself” for the SJ practice), when I see her warm up in a dressage frame, I am constantly telling her to prepare the horse to JUMP, not get collected into a sitting trot frame.
This means developing elasticity in stride length while maintaining impulsion, while riding in in a half seat. It means cantering rollbacks with a lot of outside leg. It means cantering up and down hills and staying in balance while galloping at speed.
That cannot be taught in a dressage ring, in a dressage saddle, in a dressage frame. It is an entirely different set of skills the horse needs to learn.
Just envision a dressage horse trying to hand gallop over uneven terrain. Not a pretty picture.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you that you don’t see it, but it would improve a dressage horse’s training I think to do more of that. Self-carriage is sef-carriage regardless of its purpose.
All this he-should she-should they-all-suck negativity is really kind of ugly and unproductive.
If the USA international performance is important to you, what are you going to do about it today?
Teaching 4-H or Pony Club kids?
Fence judging at the next event?
Holding a jumper schooling show?
Sending $10 to your favorite rider?
Sponsoring a prize, even a small one, for an event?
Building some new jumps?
CMP is out (on the bright side, no bonus for him, right?) and a new era of US high performance eventing starts tomorrow. Let’s build.
[QUOTE=poltroon;6469942]
All this he-should she-should they-all-suck negativity is really kind of ugly and unproductive.[/QUOTE]
Personally, I don’t think it is negative to try to understand what the national focus has been and why/how it needs to change. I really don’t think anyone thinks any of the US riders “suck.” In fact I think they all performed pretty much inline with what the records would indicate–that’s hardly sucking. But we seem to be doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results–insanity and all. Recognizing the problem is the first step in solving it.
But to answer your question, the last time I got a mailer requesting a donation for the USEF/USET I sent $100 to Colleen Rutledge instead and mailed the Paypal reciept back the the USEF in their postage paid envelope. It was so much fun I’ll probably do it again.
[QUOTE=subk;6469968]
But to answer your question, the last time I got a mailer requesting a donation for the USEF/USET I sent $100 to Colleen Rutledge instead and mailed the Paypal reciept back the the USEF in their postage paid envelope. It was so much fun I’ll probably do it again.[/QUOTE]
I don’t even know who Colleen Rutledge is (H/J hothouse flower here) but this made me laugh.
Love it, subk.
Let’s all pledge that if we send $$ to Colleen or other overlooked rising riders, we will copy the USEF when we do so.
[QUOTE=S A McKee;6469876]
The Olympics is not a 4* event.
What’s your point?[/QUOTE]
The FEI rules say the Olympics are 4*. The XC course is 4* length, albeit short. The jumps are all 4* breadth and height. The dressage test is a special test for the Olympics.
What makes you think the Olympics are not 4*? Ignorance?
