Ridenslide, you seem to be new to this board, unless this is a new name.
DDB is the last person on this board to sensationalize anything.
[QUOTE=meaty ogre;3498672]
Thomas, what do you feed your horses? [/QUOTE] I personally NEVER EVER give anything other than grass or hay UNLESS the weather is getting very bad and/or they need it to keep condition on as indicated by the weight records. Otherwise its grass and hay only. I estimate that hard feed is absolutely no more than 3 months a year
As part of routine management protocol they’re all measured with a weight tape once a week and the measurement is recorded and plotted using an Excel Spreasheet which produces a graph and as well as having the actual weight I calculate a weekly rolling average trend line using the excel facility. Its the trend that is most important rather than any small fluctuations up and down and checking that means you have a very good accurate method and indicator which can help you truly judge whether your horse is gaining or losing body weight. In spring and summer its used to manage the possibility of overweight and restrict feed and manage grazing and in summer to know when to commence increasing forage and then ultimately when to supplement grazing with hardfeed. (I’ve never in decades of keeping horses had a single one that’s had laminitis and only ever had 2 incidences of colic.)
To help a horse maintain body condition because we have cold wintes and mine are turned out for the majority of the day, its important to manage the diet to ensure that they’re not turning food to energy to maintain body heat.
So I provide free feed hay from about end September/October - or once the grass has totally stopped growing and is no longer green and has turned brown and been grazed right off.
Then I only feed “straights” to my horses - I’m not sure I’d call it keeping it simple as in some ways its harder in that its less convenient - it would be much easier to open a sack of proprietory branded food - but having spent years working in Animal Feed Manufacturer I guess its a case of knowing too much and I like to know what mine get in their diet and be certain they are getting no more and no less than I want them to have.
The main constituent of my winter hard feed is Barley which is a slower energy release protein than oats and hence Barley is preferable for maintaining condition over winter or to help with weight gain in my opinion because it means the horses aren’t getting an immediate energy release straight after feeding and then standing shivering (which uses energy and burns off condition) during the night.
If you decide to feed barley you either need to buy it rolled or “cracked”(which means it can be more easily digested) or else if its whole, it needs to be soaked at least 12 hours prior to feeding. I just keep mine in a big covered bin of water and it will keep for up to 5 days without going off (providing its not warm)
Conversely oats is too fast energy release and so in addition to the above, it tends to make hyper horses and I don’t want mine to be acting like kids with too many e numbers!
I then add some vegatables. Advantages - adds essential vitamins and minerals, makes it more interesting and slows down the pace the horse eats it (reduces risk of such as impaction colic).
So: carrots, chopped swede or turnip and any green leaves veg going spare so things like cabbage, spinach or cauliflower leaves (or whole), quartered apple.
Then salt and some vegetable oil - a good half a mug for oldies and youngsters and if its a very cold winter. Again will help to keep them warm (slow energy release) and in good condition and good for coats and joints.
I always mix the feed with hot water and made with a dilution of molasses - estimate a desert spoon for a litre of water for one horse. A lot of people get their knickers in a knot about molasses and sugar but then feed branded feed which is loaded with it, and much worse besides as a pelletising agent.
In fact though molasses is one of the best sources of copper (essential for absorption of iron) and zinc and selenium as well as most other essential minerals that horses require.
For any horse that has a tendency to “run off” condition - and in my case it tends to be oldies and some of the T/B’s then I also add boiled linseed to the feed.
Mixing it all with warm water also helps the horse to maintain body heat rather than converting heat to energy to keep warm.
When they’re being hard fed they get it either once or twice a day - Twice if its extremely cold and then immediately when they come in at 8am and then immediately prior to turn out at 4pm. If they’re not obviously cold in the morning then they are just fed prior to evening turn out. For the evening feed I also feed a small amount of hay in the stable. Mine are all in herds ranging from 4 to 9 horses and this just ensures that any subservient horse lower in the pecking order is not going to get cold whilst it waits for its turn at the bales outside.
How long have you been feeding it?
About 50 years.
Do you have any horses with dermatological issues?
No.
I don’t feed soy, and I also feed pretty much all forage. We feed free choice hay or grass 24/7 year round. We feed our weanlings to 3 year olds a couple lbs whole oats each day. The stallions and mares that are hard keepers with suckling foals get oats but other wise its a 100% diet of good grass or hay. Been doing that over 40 years with great results. I’ve never read any reserch thats said theres a better way to feed a normal healthy horse then with top notch forage.
Wow Liz. Thanks for your very eye opening post. :no:
Thomas…when I die I want to come back as one of your horses! We may not agree on all topics but my hat is off to you and your feed management.
I have also been told that Barley is a better grain for horses than oats because it is “cooler.” I’m not sure how hard that would be too find in the US…I hardly ever see it anymore but used to feed it as a girl to my horses many years ago.
Thanks again for the excellent sharing of information.
County,
Have you ever run into trouble with IR and your pastured horses? What type of grass do you have? Thanks!
Dang Thomas! I agree with DB…that is one heck of a feeding program!
I actually like it alot!
I would LOVE to feed veggies but I would not even know where to start. I tried a few one time and everyone looked at me like a kid being fed brussel sprouts!:no:
Nope I’ve pastured horses here in Mn. since 72 and never had even 1 IR horse out of about 500 head. All our pastures are a mixture of Brome, Blue, June, Timothy, and Orchard grasses. Some have a little Alsake and White Clover but not a huge amount. We have right at 180 acres of pasture split into 8 differant ones the smallerst being 4 acres the largest 80. We rotate horses behind cattle trying to use 5 pastures at a time and resting 3. In the fall after crop harvest we run cattle on corn stalks, bean stalks, and oat stubble for about 2 weeks then run the brood mares behind them. In the winter mares and cows stay on crop feilds with round bales 24/7.
Thanks County. Interesting that you can graze QHs on that much pasture and have no problems. It sure does make you wonder as I have heard (not confirmed this fact) that IR is a problem that has become more and more common in the last decades. Here you are with that much pasture, an easy keeping breed, a straight grain diet (if grain is fed at all) and no problems. That was pretty much how things were for me until this summer when I fed the soy feed. What a mistake that was.
Do your horses get leaner in the winter at all or hold a steady weight year round?
Food for thought for sure…no pun intended. 
From here west I can take you to at least 100 ranches that feed the same way. Our mares actually get a little heavier in the winter time. They don’t have foals on them and they cover less ground.
County,
You’re managing your paddocks similar to how I do. When the grass growth is lush, then I also put cattle or sheep on to get it down first.
I agree 100% with Thomas and Country that good forage is the best diet. Unfortunately, poor pasture, limited acreage, inconsistent hay quality is more the norm. That is where I and I think others look to the RB to make up for what is lacking. If money were no object, I’d have relocated a long time ago 
But, don’t let my horses hear about this or they will be on the first plane to Scotland.
OT but I almost defected to Scotland a couple years ago when we visited. It is just lovely…nice people, incredible scenery and lots of horses everywhere. I’m not sure I could take the winters though! Brrr…we almost froze in August!
I don’t really think you need a RB to make a balanced diet in the absence of pasture. A diet can be balanced…well…with a little knowledge of basic feedstuffs and some supplements as needed. I do agree though that RB’s are economical and easy compared to doing it yourself, but I sure wish I had not gone there now… Live and learn I guess.
You wouldn’t want to be where I am right now.
We’ve had torrential rain and strong winds - 36" of it in 24 hours and so we’re VERY flooded.
All the horses are in and I’ve got 30 acres of paddocks under 3 feet of water. An old oak tree crashed down this morning onto the fencing and into the flood water and another tree lost a limb into the garden this afternoon and just missing the horse box!
Its grim!
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44993000/jpg/_44993751_briannorthumberland.jpg
http://www.morpethherald.co.uk/news/Morpeth-flooding-could-get-worse.4466508.jp
Oh wow Thomas. That sounds awful. We just has a tropical storm that did less damage than that! Jingles for all of you over there for better weather and no storm damage and receding waters!
^ We don’t get tropical storms… just English summers :winkgrin:
I’ve also been researching soy for my own reasons and not to mention, I enjoy learning about nutrition and always looking for a more holisitc approach to my dogs/horses.
I just want to say that ridenslide has been wonderful to me in the past couple of weeks. When my mare first colicked and I started thinking about the connection of gas and the type of feed that has sent her into two serious colics (Legends Pellets)…I started looking at ingredients in horse feeds.
She colicked and had surgery in 2004…then we had moved barns and she was on Progressive RB for a couple of years and had no problems. I then moved barns again and felt comfortable with feeding my guys the Triple Crown performance. My mare started getting very gassey on this food, so I took her off of it. The Barn Manager had also commented to me that the batches that come in are inconsistant with each other, as far as how much oil is in a particular batch. So…I put her on Pellets (Legends)…she did fine for about 4 months and then had another serious/life threatening colic. She did not have to have surgery…but then it clicked with me that both colic episodes had been on the Legends.
Immediately went to the Progressive site and started looking at feeds. I decided on the Senior Pellet since it was a more complete feed. Now, the website only says that it is made with oats/barley. Nothing else is mentioned.
http://www.prognutrition.com/PremiumSenior.htm So I called ridenslide’s store and picked up what they had in stock. Before I go on my feed rant, let me first of all say…that both my horses are doing really well on this feed…much less gas, not having to feed as much, but yet, I don’t have to mix up extra ingredients as I did on the Diet Balancer. So I am MUCH happier with this feed than what I was on.
Now, onto my feed rant. :lol: Barn Manager and I were discussing the horse feeds…Legends vs the Progressive. She was interested in possibly switching her horse’s feed…so I said, this one is made with oats/barley…here, let me show you the bag…WELLLLLL…low and behold, the ingredients to this feed is VERY similar to all feeds…Soy, soy, soy. Nowhere on the website does it mention anything other than oats/barley…So I was a little miffed.
My friend feeds her IR horse the Diet Balancer…after reading Sharon’s post on another site, I realized that it was also made up with soy. When my friend’s horse had another colic (he’s super prone to them…but he has had ulcers in the past)…I said to her…do you think it could be soy??? And she thought that since she was feeding the DB, that she had gotten away from all of those types of things…so I said.come with me…took her in the feed room, showed her a tag and her jaw dropped…once again, very similar ingredients to every other feed on the market.
So…I guess my beef is with all the marketing and professing to how great this feed is over that one…and then when you compare ingredients, well…they are all nearly the same. Don’t get me started on NSC’s…that was posted on another site…and I couldn’t believe the NSC’s in most of the feeds…the triple crown and the Legends pellets were both at 38 percent. But of course, they don’t have to advertise these little bits of wisdom on the feed bag.
If a dog has an allergy to say chicken…well, heck, you can find a dog food with a different protein source…this just isn’t the case with horses…so we have very few options.
I have started feeding my dogs mostly raw, but do keep high quailty canned food such as Nature’s Variety, Evo on hand as well. I also keep Canidae kibble on hand in case a foster comes through. The other day, I was in a hurry, so I just gave everyone a cup of kibble…and my dalmatian was farting up a storm…doesn’t do it on the canned or the raw…but very gassey on the kibble…my guess is because it is more processed/more fillers than the canned food.
I think it’s good that we are all discussing things and thinking outside the box. That’s the only way that we learn. We all need to be educated on what we are feeding our horses and get other ideas from people who may have other ideas that work.
Eventually, I may go to mixing my stuff up again…beet pulp, alfalfa cubes, rice bran…but for now, the Progressive Sr. seems to be working well for my guys. I have added Lin Pro and Tract Guard in the mix as well.
I need to start a new thread on this, I know this will get lost…but if you feed Lin Pro, should you do away with feeding a supplement like Envision. My 24 year old has been getting Envision for the past month. …with rice bran in the Lin Pro, I wasn’t sure if I should stop feeding the Envision or not…hopefully ridenslide can answer that for me.
I can vouch for Ridenslide, she has been VERY helpful to me…and she didn’t even have to be. She was answering my questions via PM before I even walked into the store to make a feed purchase. When I had a problem recently in the store, she was on it immediately. She does run a wonderful business and would sure like to see her back in the store. :yes:
That’s my rant for this evening. :lol:
Thomas we need rain here but we sure don’t need it like that!!!
[QUOTE=county;3499788]
Thomas we need rain here but we sure don’t need it like that!!![/QUOTE] Well the worst of it is that seeing the forecast for rain, I decided on Monday to sow about £700 worth of grass seed on a couple of paddocks.
I’m thinking the seed is now all washed out to the North Sea!!! :mad:
[QUOTE=Sarah Ralston;3497338]
PLEASE, folks-beware of supplementing single amino acids! They are NOT innocuous and giving too much lysine (or any other single amino acid!) will interfere with absorption of other amino acids and cause major muscle/protein metabolism problems! I know of one experienced, respected endurance rider who found out the hard way-feeding 2 to 3x the recommended amount of lysine resulted in SEVERE tying up problems![/QUOTE]
Thank you Dr. Ralston. I cringe every time I see certain members of this forum recommending substantial amounts lysine for nearly every equine problem. :no:
And I have to wonder about all this blaming of soy for a laminitis episode in a pregnant mare directly attributed to “thyroid” problems thought to be caused by soy. Never mind the research showing laminitis is NOT induced by even the complete removal of the thyroid gland (nor did the thyroidectomized horses get fat). This information has been available for years yet one continues to see laminitis and IR blamed on “thyroid” problems.
www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2002/910102000178.PDF
Neither does it seem to be offered for consideration all of the hormonal changes brought on by pregnancy itself nor the fact the horse (a mustang, I believe) and others at this farm showing IR symptoms have been on unrestricted grazing all summer.
And regarding Dr. Harmon: I have zero faith in any vet who thinks feeding oats to a foundered horse is a good thing. :rolleyes: Ditto her firm belief in the “miracle” of homeopathy. She is seriously misinformed, misguided and dangerous, IMO.
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;3498236]
Thanks for the answer. I was afraid you’d say that no horse specific studies exist. [/QUOTE]
I was confused by your question about phytoestrogens and isoflavone content; not sure what would be specific about the content of those components to a horse.
So it’s a waste of money “hunting for gremlins” in doing studies that will show if soy can have a negative effect on horses? That just sounds very cavalier to me. Now I am more convinced than before to avoid feed with soy in it. 
That seems like an odd conclusion to draw from the information given. If something has not indicated a likely problem in 30 years why would you go looking for negative effects?
