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Who here has removed soy from their horse's diet?

Horse Care
#61

THank you for the kind words dalpal! I am glad Diva is doing well.

Looking into that alternative!Will have an anwer or two by tomorrow.
As soon as I get Dr’s clearance to lift, I will be back!:winkgrin:THat way people don’t look at me like I am some sort of imbecile when I can’t reach up or get feed, or whatever. My appointment is Monday(fingers crossed).
Last surgery was 6 weeks ago, so…soon. I sooo need to get off the farm!:lol:

If nothing else, we can plan our pitch to the feed companies as to what WE want!

Everyone here has great Ideas. I wish we could all have acres of perfect pastures to graze our horses on, and rotate , but that isn’t reality for most of us.:frowning:
However, somehow we won the happy land lottery when we bought our property! Kudos to the farmers on good crop rotation!

However it is not like days of old.

As far as the feed companies-
THe horse feed companies are more ethical than pet companies.THey don’t want their test subjects to die. Sad but true, dogs and cats are more readily available to test on.They have litters, and mature in a year. Horses don’t.

grayarabpony- as you see, I have been a member as ridenslide since 2002.THat was when the BB siwtched over & I renewed. I was cozmojumps or jumpsalot before then, when the COTH forums first got going.A friend’s child got my password & posted some unkind things about someone & I changed my screen name.

#62

Thats a really good point. Even if people–not companies–but people wanted to fund research its still a way to make horses suffer.

Research horses tested for the negitve effects of Soy? What do you think that is like for the horses?

#63

I think you have a few facts wrong. 1st…I am not blaming my mares founder on her thryoid. I don’t know why she foundered. I do however blame the feed I had my horses on all summer with a high soy content for the IR problems I am seeing this year that I never had before. Honestly I suspect we will find out she is IR like many of my others. The question is why a large percentage of my horses suddenly became IR? I did nothing different this year than any year before EXCEPT add a hell of lot of soy into their diets they had never eaten before. Soy has been proven to cause goiter in people and some animals. Of course we don’t know for certain if it does in horses or not because no one has ever done the research.

Ummm…again…you need to get your facts straight. My horses…Spanish Mustangs please…at least get their breed correct…were NOT on unrestricted grazing. The mare who foundered was on a 1 acre paddock with two other adults and two foals. Not exactly neck deep in grass. My paddocks and fields are not lush. I don’t suppose you’d know that would you if you never been to my farm? You have made a lot of wrong assumptions about what happened. I suggest you get your facts straight before posting again because I will set you straight.

[quote=rcloisonne;3499932] And regarding Dr. Harmon: I have zero faith in any vet who thinks feeding oats to a foundered horse is a good thing. :rolleyes: Ditto her firm belief in the “miracle” of homeopathy. She is seriously misinformed, misguided and dangerous, IMO.
[/quote]

Who said she said that? Since you’ve gotten all the other things I’ve posted wrong, I suppose it’s to be expected you’d get this wrong too. You are way off here. I said she suggested feeding oats (preferably barley) AS NEEDED or IF NEEDED in a horse’s diet…not to my IR horses. Your understanding is way way off and your attack on a respected internationally known veterinarian completely uncalled for. I’d sure put my horses in her hands long before I’d put them in yours!

#64

Would you rather your own horse died or foundered? :confused: I hate that research is done on animals at all but I’d sure as hell like to know the ingredients in my horses’ feed have been tested and safe before feeding it to them, wouldn’t you?

#65

Horses aren’t expendable but dogs and cats are? HUH? Do you have any idea how many horses are sent in trucks across the boarders every year to be slaughtered? How many OTTB’s are put down? I’d rather see a horse on a research farm than a truck to the slaughterhouse. At least their end has some meaning and some dignity.

I think you are misguided if you think horse feed company’s are in it for anything more than profit.

#66

As I stated and provided references for, thyroid malfunction, even if caused by soy (which I find hard to believe would cause problems in the amounts fed and contained in a RB) does not result the problems you’ve experienced.

Ummm…again…you need to get your facts straight. My horses…Spanish Mustangs please…at least get their breed correct…were NOT on unrestricted grazing. The mare who foundered was on a 1 acre paddock with two other adults and two foals. Not exactly neck deep in grass. My paddocks and fields are not lush. I don’t suppose you’d know that would you if you never been to my farm? You have made a lot of wrong assumptions about what happened. I suggest you get your facts straight before posting again because I will set you straight.

Mustang, Spanish mustang, whatever. Sheesh! Pony and small horse breeds are prone to having metabolic problems and founder easily. THAT is a fact. And if you’d ever bother to read the safergrass.org site you’d know stressed, overgrazed pasture is very high in sugar and fuctans. I think it is YOU who needs to get your facts straight.

Who said she said that? Now you are way off. I said she suggested feeding oats AS NEEDED or IF NEEDED in a horse’s diet…not to my IR horses.

I didn’t mention that from anything you’ve written. Got it straight from her website many years ago. And yes, I do know who she is. A quack.

#67

[QUOTE=ridenslide;3500013]

grayarabpony- as you see, I have been a member as ridenslide since 2002.THat was when the BB siwtched over & I renewed. I was cozmojumps or jumpsalot before then, when the COTH forums first got going.A friend’s child got my password & posted some unkind things about someone & I changed my screen name.[/QUOTE]

Your join date says 2006, with 45 posts. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

#68

Uh I do beleive livestock slaughtered has a meaning. Its called feeding people, very very common the world over.

#69

Whatever…glad you are such an expert on so many things. Whatever…

i’ve been over safergrass many times and I’m well aware that sugar in grass can cause IR and laminitis and when and how sugar/fructan levels can fluctuate. I’m a bit more experienced than you must think I am and again you don’t even know me…so you are making a lot of wrong assumptions…something you seem to have talent for. I will repeat again and with emphasis…I HAVE OWNED THESE HORSES FOR YEARS GRAZING ON THE SAME PASTURES AND NEVER HAD IR ISSUES OR LAMINITIS UNTIL I FED THEM A SOY BASED FEED. NOTHING ELSE CHANGED FROM YEARS BEFORE!!! I’m not going to go into full details now as I’ve posted it on the other thread. Go back and read it again if you’d like.

You are wrong about what Dr. Harmon recommends. I don’t know what she said years ago but she’s not recommending that now. I will restate again that I’ll buy into her “quackery” long before I’ll buy into your expertise. :wink:

#70

All right…meaningful to those who choose to eat them or sell them for meat but lets not digress onto that topic. This one is bad enough. :slight_smile:

#71

I didn’t bring the topic up.

#72

You are right…I did…but I was only doing it to make a point. I stand corrected…there is meaning in the death of an animal that will be eaten.

My point was that there are a lot of cheap expendable horses right now and many will die for meat that could be used for research to help other horses instead and that it would also be a meaningful use for those horses.

Is that better? :slight_smile:

#73

Beleive me theres way way more then enough to go around for both many times over. If one wants to do either with their livestock so be it.

#74

You got that right…there are plenty of cheap horses right now.

#75

Gray- If you would like me to give Mr Banner permission, you can have the original start date of my Original membership.:wink:

It was not too long after the launch of the original BB.
Many of the founding members are no longer with us.:cry:

It would be interesting to have had Willem’s take on all of this!RIP WIllem! WE miss you!:sadsmile:

Believe it or not,there are people such as Don Kapper out there who Want to help horses, not just the bottome line.That is why Dr. Kapper left Buckeye & started progressive.

Ration Balancers in some form HAVE been around for over 30 years. They just weren’t called that.They were called things like TizWiz 30,Triple Crown 30, Gro & Win, Calf Manna,Sunshine Plus, etc…

Grayarabpony-
What were you giving me the benefit of the doubt of?:confused:

Did I say ANYWHERE that I thought is was OK to test on dogs and cats, and for the companies to kill them? No, silly.:winkgrin: I just stated the fact that feed companies don’t want their horses to die, because it takes a lot longer to replace the test subbjects.That is a fact. I don’t have to like it.:no:

I believe that is taking a statement out of context ,once again,:no: and twisting into an inflammatory lie, and making it appear that I condone animal testing and slaughter. Get the facts straight, please, and quit extrapolating pieces to make your answers fit your theories.–I am not talking about soy anymore, so do not go there.
I am just talking about plain old facts.
One of which is I admit I don’t know everything there is to know about feed & horse health.

Dalpal and her friend bought some issues to my attention which led me to do some great research.This has led to looking at breeds, different soy products,different ingredient lists,where the minerals & yeast come from, and most importantly, the quality control of these ingredients.

I have had some great insights in the past month!! :eek::confused::no::yes::winkgrin:

So, that said, I don’t think anyone is trying to poison horses.:eek::no:

BTW-Not that this is your case, but ,THere are some bad trimmers & farriers who have put some horses into severe laminitic rotational stages ,too.:mad:

Yep- Sugar can make horses act loopy!!:winkgrin:

DDB- what did you feed before?

#76

Snarky, snarky, snarky… :lol:

i’ve been over safergrass many times and I’m well aware that sugar in grass can cause IR and laminitis and when and how sugar/fructan levels can fluctuate. I’m a bit more experienced than you must think I am and again you don’t even know me…

Nope, I don’t know you. Only what you’ve written. And did you miss the part about stressed, overgrazed pastures?

so you are making a lot of wrong assumptions…something you seem to have talent for. I will repeat again and with emphasis…I HAVE OWNED THESE HORSES FOR YEARS GRAZING ON THE SAME PASTURES AND NEVER HAD IR ISSUES OR LAMINITIS UNTIL I FED THEM A SOY BASED FEED. NOTHING ELSE CHANGED FROM YEARS BEFORE!!!

Diabetics one day wake up diabetic. They may have eaten cake the night before but that damn well didn’t CAUSE their diabetes. Just tipped them over the edge. :wink:

I’m not going to go into full details now as I’ve posted it on the other thread. Go back and read it again if you’d like.

No thanks. I’ve read enough.

You are wrong about what Dr. Harmon recommends. I don’t know what she said years ago but she’s not recommending that now. I will restate again that I’ll buy into her “quackery” long before I’ll buy into your expertise. :wink:

Whatever. But I’m not at all surprised her “fringe” mentality impresses you. :wink:

#77

The feed stores around here carry rolled barley.

You might find this interesting:

Glycemic index of cracked corn, oat groats and rolled barley in horses

#78

Ladies, please, calm down a bit.

I’d personally like to see some answers to the original question rather than the mudslinging.

It’s obvious that “some” horses can’t tolerate soy. Just like I can’t tolerate lobster. (It makes me colic violently, just as soy does one of my horses.) It’s one of those wierd things.

But we would have to agree that not every horse that has a digestive upset or hives or is laminitic or founders is soy-intolerant. However, it is something to consider along with all the other things you need to look at, because clearly, it presents a problem to some horses.

Not a thing to start impugning each other’s characters about.

For those of us that are fortunate or unfortunate enough to take care of these horses, the original and interesting question was what are we offering as alternatives? That’s what I keep coming back to this thread looking for, not a bunch of people being snarky to each other.

(Oh, and trust me, in the United States, you don’t want to start taking a horse that digests soy perfectly happily and try to find an alternative balanced diet just for the hell of it. It’s a total raving pain in the butt.)

#79

THank you for the wrist slap ATR-:wink:

You are right.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.:winkgrin: That is a great adage to live by.

You have been given great advice on alternative protein sources.Alfalfa would be my choice.
It is also the hay I feed. I get minerals or a supplement to balance that CA/Ph ratio, after the hay is tested (IF you get large season long loads.:wink:

Not so important for my 11 year old geldings, more important for the 3yos, very important for the broodie & baby.:winkgrin:

THanks again for the time out!:smiley:

BTW- There ARE new feeds being developed to address this issue. It just takes TIME to make sure that they ARE SAFE and provide the correct results and nutrition.It takes a lot of time,once an issue is discovered. THis soy allergy/ response issue has just come to light by VETS in the middle of this year, so don’t expect it until next year at the earliest.

#80

Thanks also atr. You are right that it is unproductive to the max and not helping anyone to understand if and how soy might affect some horses short of an allergy attack.

I was pretty upset last night to be attacked by someone who did not even have the facts of the matter nor what I even said about my situation correct. Yes I was snarky but that went both ways.

To anyone reading this: If you think I’m dead wrong about soy and what happened to my horses, you have the right to do so. All I ask is to not twist the facts or try to make me out like some kind of idiot who knows nothing. I am tired of it…I really am. I also have several vets who I am working with (not just Dr. Harman…and the nasty insults on a respected vet tell me all I need to know about the person who did it) who do not think I am crazy or way off track so keep that in mind. You aren’t here, you are not in my position, you don’t know my horses as I do, and you have not even seen my farm or my horses so jumping to conclusions about what happened here is ridiculous.

I do not have a normal situation down here with what has happened and I did not walk out one day at the end of the summer after letting my horses get progressively fatter and fatter on lush or stressed pastures and then put the blame on something else. I became concerned about a month after I started the feed, took measures, and tried all summer to keep horses from getting fatter…to no avail on that feed. I don’t know WHY it happened and it’s all theory right now in the lack of any scientific study (as confirmed by Dr. Ralston). There are lots of cheap Spanish Mustangs out there right now that can be bought at low prices from larger ranches going into winter so if a company wants to buy some to research on, it can be done. My horses will not be anyone’s guinea pigs ever again.

FWIW also my farm vet who is a very experienced vet in IR and laminitis agreed 100% with everything Dr. Harman recommended also so I do not think she is on the fringe at all but rather right on the money. The only difference is that she uses homeopathics to AID in recovery. I did not even consult with her specifically to try homeopathics but because of her expertise in healing horses naturally which is the path I will take.

ridenslide…nothing I posted last night was directed at you or anything you said…I merely disagreed that research horses are hard to come by. Horses are cheap right now especially grade horses and some more plentiful breeds like QH. They can be had for killer prices or are given away on Craigslist all the time.

I certainly do hope that now someone will actually study soy in horses. I am very dismayed that it has not been done before.

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