Why is my horse now scared of jumps?

[Fiesta01]

@Live_Wire

The mouth is the biggest concern for me, personally. He looks very offended. Does he grind his teeth at all? I would consider trying different bits and trying to sort some of that discomfort out. Out of curiousity, why are you using a curb? He was still busy in the Dee, but not quite as bad. I keep a loose ring in rotation, for him I might try a an eggbutt to offer some support as he seems so unconfident.

This.^

After ruling out other physical problems, this horse definitely looks like he is objecting to the bit and hands. He needs to build confidence in the rider’s hand with a gentle bit and a jump strap for the rider.

Does your trainer have any steady school horses to help you focus on independence of hand and seat? I always found gridwork exercises helpful in building rider confidence, also. No hands, arms out from shoulder; progressing to no stirrups. This should help when you’re on your own horse with a jump strap and a gentler bit.

He’s a very cute horse and a sensitive soul. He just needs patience and kindness.

ETA: I found mullen mouth snaffles help some very fussy horses. Also, French link loose ring snaffles.

[Jealoushe]

@glenburn

As Rodney used to say, if you can’t get your horse nice in the mouth, you can’t go to the jumps.

I love this!

[punchy]

I agree with others who say you don’t have enough impulsion, you’re heavy in his mouth, and you’re riding defensively. He’s lost confidence to the point of looking scared, that’s why he’s evading and refusing.

That’s all pretty obvious. So if you’re trainer cant see that, I’m not sure she can help you fix it. Time to have a heart to heart with her about her job and/or the suitability of this horse for you. (Whose idea was it to bit up?!) Being brutally honest here—saving feelings when a horse is devolving is no good for anybody—not you, the trainer, and most of all the horse. Act now, before he develops more severe body tension that turns chronic and not fixable and terror that takes years to undo—seen too much of that.

[Scribbler]

@punchy

I agree with others who say you don’t have enough impulsion, you’re heavy in his mouth, and you’re riding defensively. He’s lost confidence to the point of looking scared, that’s why he’s evading and refusing.

That’s all pretty obvious. So if you’re trainer cant see that, I’m not sure she can help you fix it. Time to have a heart to heart with her about her job and/or the suitability of this horse for you. (Whose idea was it to bit up?!) Being brutally honest here—saving feelings when a horse is devolving is no good for anybody—not you, the trainer, and most of all the horse. Act now, before he develops more severe body tension that turns chronic and not fixable and terror that takes years to undo—seen too much of that.

I agree that a curb seems an unusual choice for arena jumping a low level horse. Maybe cross country or fox hunting you want a pelham on a strong horse

But in general a curb makes a horse back off the bit, you don’t ride on true contact with a curb. And it multiplies any jiggle or grab by the rider. Curbs move with rein movement before you have full contact unlike snaffles. Also with a just curb you can’t do any snaffle rein aids, all your lateral has to be off the seat and leg. Fine in a finished California bridle gaucho horse. Not very useful in a jumper. It makes it harder to keep them straight

[Frivian]

This horse is in pain and he’s screaming it at you.

I agree that the confidence is an issue, but I think the root of the confidence is pain. The addition of the Kimberwicke bit has obviously made it worse (just rushing crossrails vs. stopping and running out) but I don’t think the mouth is the root cause. I would check his back, feet, hocks, and triple check saddle fit.

[Live_Wire]

@jcc813

I wouldn’t say I’m ever nervous in a fearful way in these lessons. The obstacles are so small I usually start out feeling confident that we can get over. If anything I probably have been taking it too much for granted and assuming he’s not going to balk when we’re just starting out over basically a speed bump. So when he does start stopping it’s more that I get flustered which he does probably read. I will say I don’t love doing those awkward jumps from a stop or when he speeds off after a jump but otherwise I’m not necessarily nervous to jump.

I agree, I don’t see you being fearful, but I can see your body language change and escalate. I’m not saying that in a way to pick at you, it’s just something to be mindful of.

i don’t know who’s idea the Kimberwick was, but I strongly disagree with the idea that this horse needs more leverage. I think he needs pushed forward into the hand and a steady connection at a steady pace. We are naturally inclined to pull instead of push, but you have to retrain your brain. It’s like riding a bike. It you slow down too much, you lose your balance.

I maintain that I think this horse is uncomfortable. I’m not sure he’s in excruciating pain - if he is, he is a very kind horse. I think a lot of us are quick to go down the rabbit hole of writing problem behaviors off as pain. IMO a lot of times its discomfort that we create unintentionally.

[Xctrygirl]

Ok here’s my take.

You bought the right horse at the wrong time. If you had had a more perceptive trainer you would have avoided this. And by “this” I mean that these types of ‘less ideal’ pairings can wear/deteriorate the confidence of both the horse and the rider.

You needed to buy this horse AFTER it had a slightly more solid rider that he/they moved from BN through Training. Then they decide they need a world beater WB and this guy would have had 4-5 seasons on him. He is generous to you in the trial rides compilation but you can see that he will be stopping in the not to distant future because you’re not strong/confident enough to tell him, “We’re going over this jump” and mean it and hold both of you to it.

I’ve been through a tangent of this type of deal and I got out of it with a concussion and a fractured wrist in the 12 month period of our ownership. And the horse died a year later. (Brain tumor) But I thought we were great and we were not. MANY better horses were out there, many better suited riders were out there, but we were together. And it was FAR LESS than ideal.

But the good news is that you have choices… you can commit to being better and change things up and try to improve. You can sell him and buy something else, or you can switch trainers and see how that goes. But overall you need to invoke change in things somewhere. Because status quo is not working for either of you.

This is NOT the end of the world… Eventing is about challenging your horse and yourself and seeing where you can get to. Now it’s up to you.

So ask yourself these things:

1. Do you look forward to riding this horse?
2. Are there goals you have that you imagine doing with or without it?
3. Do you get excited or nervous before any competition phases?
4. Do you want to do all the same things you dreamed of when you got this horse?

I’m a nameless schlub on the internet to you, but I promise MOST of us have been through this. And as such there are about a zillion ways to work through it.

But life isn’t that fun if you aren’t enjoying one of the most expensive hobbies in the world. So make sure you make choices that bring you more joy into life and less stress. That will help the most in the long run.

Good luck.

Emily

[glenburn]

My longtime friend/pro/rider who was rarely beatable in any division, was approached by a lady at Devon and she asked why his horses went so well (and why they are so expensive). I stepped back because I thought, this is going to be good. He said, for each horse I have here, I evaluated over two hundred horses that wouldn’t do. Some were in Europe, some at race tracks, some in fields as I drive to shows like this. Then it takes several years to develop that talent without ruining it.

[NaturallyHappy]

Great post!

[NaturallyHappy]

And actually, that’s almost exactly how I met my late husband. I was attending a local show and watched him come in on nice horse after nice horse…real standouts. I asked my trainer at the time who it was and how those horses went so beautifully. She didn’t know of him and told me I’d never have enough money to have a horse like that because they were born that way. I tracked him down and changed trainers. It was nearly 40 years ago. I was very, very blessed.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Even in the first video, although the first few jumps look rather nice, as others observed, he seems to grow progressively tense in the back and fussy in the mouth. Were you losing confidence as well? I only ask because of the trainer’s comments about “having a plan,” and “not caring trotting everything” as long as you were more forward, comments which I incidentally, heard quite a bit back when I was regularly jumping. So it could be a more serious physical issue that gets progressively worse with more activity or the horse simply needing a very confident rider who can “keep him together” mentally and physically at this stage of his career.

My big question with the crossrail was why approach it again and again in the same way? What was your trainer’s rationale? Because trotting very slowly to a scary jump on a big loop, giving him lots of time to think about it and plan his exit strategy seems to be the opposite of what I’ve usually been advised. (Again, this is not a criticism of you, and I would have felt the same way, and similarly expected failure after the horse aborted his mission in such a spectacular way several times.)

[omare]

For my learning, in the first video in the first few jumps in the ring horse after the first fence starts pulling her to the second fence and rider tries to steady him, he gets mouthy. What would a professional rider do?

Or is this a matter of, you cannot fix it going down to the second fence, it starts before that on the flat?

[Ajierene]

To me, it looks like he’s done with your shenanigans. You look like you are riding with your hands and not seat and leg. He was good for the trial rides because he had good training and that was your first couple of rides with his previous owner likely riding in between to reinforce his job. Being better at the beginning of a lesson and degrading into what that second video showed is likely because he’s ever hopeful you will learn to stay out of his mouth.

In the first video, in the entire video, you looked to me like you were hanging on his mouth a lot. This was especially prevalent at the end when you were trotting across the field with a tight rein that was shorter than it was earlier in the cross country school and you did not seem to let up at all over the small jump.

In the second video, even at the beginning while the reins were longer, you were fussing with his head the entire time like you were trying to bring it down/in something of a frame. It got worse as the video went on. That jump he could walk over and you two should have walked up to it on a loose rein and let him chill at it. Changing to a tougher bit isn’t helping the situation.

I would see issues like this when I used to work with finding new homes for thoroughbreds off the track. It was invariably someone used to a quarter horse/lesson horse type who put way to much leg on the horse then freaked out when the horse took off and responded with hanging on the horse’s mouth. The head tossing is, to me, an indicator of this horse’s annoyance. Going over a jump and hanging on the horse’s mouth means the horse feels it cannot balance well to get over the jump. No matter how bad a horse is rushing, I have learned that one to two strides out, just let go. I either abort mission or just let go, but previous to that if you are doing your half halt correctly, you are using more seat and leg than hand and settling the horse that way.

Personally, I would go back to the snaffle and go back to flat work until you can at least speed up/slow down the gait, if not drop down/go up gaits without touching the reins, as well as the ability to at least turn the horse if not do a full circle without touching the reins.

If you can do this on the flat and these issues just appear when jumping - get a neckstrap or grab mane and start with ground poles, set your hand so there is a loop in the rein at least two strides from the “jump” and after. Start with walk, then trot, then canter and once you can do ground poles well, start moving up.

[enjoytheride]

It looks like the OP has removed all of their videos.

[Rnichols]

Can you blame them, really?

[enjoytheride]

If you ask for training advice on a BB you have to be prepared for all sorts of responses. Good responses worded carefully. Good responses worded with no tact. Someone recommending Tumeric. Someone who’s just there to sound superior. Someone who has two stuffed horses at home but watches a lot of Youtube.

[candyappy]

@enjoytheride

It looks like the OP has removed all of their videos.

Not all of them but @Ajierene appears to be spot on about the rider hanging onto the poor horses mouth.
It seems to be a continual problem even when not jumping.

I saw that after watching the videos just now. You would think the person’s " trainer" could see that?
I guess the OP didn’t like to hear they were( most likely ) the problem and not the jumps. Truth is hard for most of us to take, even when we ask for it.

For the horses sake I hope they listen.

[enjoytheride]

@candyappy

Not all of them but @Ajierene appears to be spot on about the rider hanging onto the poor horses mouth.
It seems to be a continual problem even when not jumping.

I saw that after watching the videos just now. You would think the person’s " trainer" could see that?
I guess the OP didn’t like to hear they were( most likely ) the problem and not the jumps. Truth is hard for most of us to take, even when we ask for it.

For the horses sake I hope they listen

There’s a big difference between what some people think is “saying it like it is” and “not being a jerk” Several posters could have easily found a kinder way of saying what they said but made the choice not to. As you just did.

[candyappy]

@enjoytheride

There’s a big difference between what some people think is “saying it like it is” and “not being a jerk” Several posters could have easily found a kinder way of saying what they said but made the choice not to. As you just did.

Well most posters are usually well acquainted with the COTH mentality before posting something like this. I don’t find anything unkind in my remarks.

The video is proof of what is going on. I could have said it was a possible health/ soundness issue so the OP would feel better but how does that help the horse or the issue the OP is having?

[Rnichols]

Completely agree with you. You know that and I know that, but the OP may have not known that. I know if I had gotten some of the responses I read on here I wouldn’t have mentally took it well. I guess that’s what happens when you open yourself up on the internet, but as you mentioned there are kinder ways of getting the point across .

To the OP, I hope you and your trainer are able to work through the issues you are having. And I hope you’re able to take some of the helpful responses on here in the way they were intended. Good luck to you!