I’ll be there, live and in person!!! I can’t tell what groups are what, but I do know that if I were riding, I’d be applying. But since I’m not, Morningside is 30 minutes away, and I’m friends with a majority of the crew there, I’ll pay my $20, bundle up, prop the gimpy leg up, and blog away, if you all would like.
Meanwhile, I’m enjoying this show. 
[QUOTE=JER;7169399]
He’s been around awhile and knows a few things about training the event horse.[/QUOTE]
I may sound stupid, but I happen to know that…
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7169414]
I can’t tell what groups are what, but I do know that if I were riding, I’d be applying. [/QUOTE]
So this is where I’m stumped.
YB, given your recent issues, I’d think you’d be very concerned that you and your horse were in the appropriate group.
Here we have an organizer who appears to have little experience in eventing. So little that there’s a group called ‘Future Event Horses’ (which, per USEA, is a designation for 1-3YOs who show in-hand), yet these FEHs are supposed to be ‘successful’ at the very least at Training level and somehow, this group is also differentiated from a ‘Training/Prelim’ group.
Are the clinic FEHs supposed to be future 4* horses or future Prelim packers? Are they supposed to be able to clear 4’3" with ease or max out at 3’9"? In other words, how can I feel confident that the exercises will be appropriate for my horse?
A bad afternoon at a clinic (or any bad jump school) can undo years of careful training in a matter of hours. This goes for the rider as well as the horse.
We have countless threads on safety and rider responsibility. Both topics apply here. A responsible rider will seek to maximize safety by ensuring that their horse is in an appropriate group at a clinic.
Hmm, call me naive but I’m pretty sure WFP got eyeballs and ears to go along with his ‘eventing god’ status. A little bit of knowledge stuffed between his ears as well, I would presume.
Now don’t get me wrong, I agree that all clinics and categorizations are a risk to unraveling prior knowledge (or increasing it). However, I’m pretty willing to bet that WFP will be conscientious and careful about improving horses, not unraveling them.
If I were closer I would gladly toss caution to the wind to see what could be accomplished. Alas instead I will live vicariously through YB’s report back. 
JER, I completely agree with you with regard to the ambiguity of the Future Event Horse group. That really needs a better explanation.
However, if you read the EN information blurb this is not a first come, first served type arrangement. It is described as “exclusive” where you can be one of “the select few” if after submitting an application, a rider biography, and summation of horse accomplishments, you are chosen by a “committee of knowledgable equestrians”.
I would LOVE to audit, but that kind of application process makes me think they are insuring that you are right for the clinic, not the clinic being right for you.
[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;7169477]
However, if you read the EN information blurb this is not a first come, first served type arrangement. It is described as “exclusive” where you can be one of “the select few” if after submitting an application, a rider biography, and summation of horse accomplishments, you are chosen by a “committee of knowledgable equestrians”. [/QUOTE]
I did read the EN info. It says you have to apply to one of the four categories, not apply to the clinic in general. That’s why it would be especially helpful to understand what those categories are.
:lol:
If I’m the one paying, and I’m the one who’s put years into bringing the horse along (in my case, this usually includes breeding it), I’ll stick with situations where I’m reasonably certain that the clinic is right for us.
Anyway, you all know I’m riff-raff. I’m sure the Committee would figure it out from my essay. Passing for ‘classy’ is well beyond my capabilities.
[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;7169477]
However, if you read the EN information blurb this is not a first come, first served type arrangement. It is described as “exclusive” where you can be one of “the select few” if after submitting an application, a rider biography, and summation of horse accomplishments, you are chosen by a “committee of knowledgable equestrians”.
[/QUOTE] And the refusal to give even ballpark pricing makes me wonder if different riders will be charged different prices, depending on who you are/how much star power you bring.
[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;7169477]
JER, I completely agree with you with regard to the ambiguity of the Future Event Horse group. That really needs a better explanation.
However, if you read the EN information blurb this is not a first come, first served type arrangement. It is described as “exclusive” where you can be one of “the select few” if after submitting an application, a rider biography, and summation of horse accomplishments, you are chosen by a “committee of knowledgable equestrians”.
I would LOVE to audit, but that kind of application process makes me think they are insuring that you are right for the clinic, not the clinic being right for you.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, I’m sure they want to make sure you are right for the clinic. As one who as organized clinics, there is nothing more distressing than having someone show up who disrupts and detracts from the overall experience of the participants.
The Morningside staff and their trainers know what they are doing. I happen to know and respect them.
The Organizer is free to put together a clinic anyway she deems. No doubt that WFP is an excellent rider and is a hot ticket right now for the star gazers, that have always populated equestrian sports. The “application” process is a huge turn-off for me, but I am guessing she will have no trouble filling the clinic, given his popularity.
That being said, I strongly disagree with those on this thread that state 3* and 4* Riders don’t (or shouldn’t) coach lower levels. There are many, many proven top level riders that have no problem teaching lower level students, and do it extremely well.
I have been tremendously fortunate to have both a regular trainer and clinician (his long time coach who is well known on this board) who have both ridden at the top levels of the sport, and are very willing to work me at the lower levels. Their passion for horses, eventing, and teaching are very special qualities not necessarily automatically granted, just because you win at the top levels of the sport.
Learning from the best you can find is the way to go. In my experience, the hot ticket of the moment, isn’t necessarily a good indicator.
Well…I assume that they just want good groups for him to teach and for the auditors to watch. But if all they want are “names”…well, that loses my interest but likely will get others interested.
Wanting a certain level of rider and horses is fine. I’ve organized enough clinics and know how having the one wrong horse/rider in a group can really make it not a great experience for everyone. But honestly…there are a lot of very good riders who are not well known…nor what is the point or benefit of trying to make it too “exclusive”. You need enough riders to cover costs…not too many. A well subscribed clinic is exclusive enough. All they really need is the a good group of riders and horses.
I think it would be fun and interesting to ride with WFP. Not sure I’d make the drive just to audit. He is certainly an OUTSTANDING rider…but I’ve heard very little about his teaching…I suspect he would be good but no idea. In the end…it’s just a clinic. Not a life altering experience
From the EN page:
The clinic will be a very select and competitive group of riders and horses, with only 16 combinations participating. There are four groups for which you can apply: Future Event Horses, Young Riders and Under 25s, Training/Preliminary, and 3*/4*. Only horses and riders who are currently successful and confirmed at the Training level and above will be selected. Both days will be jumping focused, so bring your sticky spray.
Think you’ve got what it takes to have WFP bestow his knowledge upon you? You need only apply! Send your application to Team EnGaged Clinics at tempichange@gmail.com. You should include a brief biography of yourself as a rider and a quick summary of your horse’s achievements. If you would like to add any pertinent information that could help you become one of the lucky few, please do so. Applicants will be selected by a committee of knowledgeable equestrians who are integrally involved in the organization of the clinic.
This is pretty cut and dry to me. It is not a ‘fill-in-the-blank’ application process, but still clear enough. Sounds like they will organize the groups based on the best-suited applicants.
As far as the ‘Future Event Horses’ category goes, sure, it is confusing, but who cares? I guess if I had a 3yo and I wanted it to be considered, I would just submit an application, adding to it that because my horse is 3, I’ve barely started him and not confirmed at Training level, and add what I would want to get out of it.
[QUOTE=JER;7169447]
Here we have an organizer who appears to have little experience in eventing. [/QUOTE]
This is an incorrect assumption. The organizer runs regular combined tests, dressage test and jumper shows. The facility owners are deeply involved in eventing. It is an absolute first rate setting for a clinic.
It sounds to me like marketing had some influence in the group selection criteria. So what? They are going to be way oversubscribed and the clinic will be a huge success IMHO.
[QUOTE=SevenDogs;7169593]
That being said, I strongly disagree with those on this thread that state 3* and 4* Riders don’t (or shouldn’t) coach lower levels. There are many, many proven top level riders that have no problem teaching lower level students, and do it extremely well. [/QUOTE]
No that was referenced to clinicians who ‘didn’t want’ to teach LL. I’s actually a good thing that they come to terms with that. Many top riders enjoy teaching all levels - NO disagreement there. A few do not have the patience or personality (I can think of a few who are blisteringly rude!) to teach either LL or certain rider personalities.
[QUOTE=SevenDogs;7169593]
Learning from the best you can find is the way to go. [/QUOTE]
agree - go see/ride the best you can afford. audit as much as you can.
There are some great riders who are lousy teachers.
There are some great riders who are great teachers at all levels.
There are some great riders who are great teaching, for instance, upeer levels, but lousy teaching lower levels.
There are some great riders who COULD teach all levels, but do not enjoy teaching lower levels.
Similarly, there are some not-so-great riders who are (the same options)
It is good when a rider RECOGNIZES which category he/she is in, and does not try to be all things to all people.
I think one of JER’s point is that we know he is a great rider. But we do not know where he fits as a teacher.
If I were organizing a clinic and I was reasonably certain that the number of people interested in participating would far exceed the number of slots, I would most likely go through exactly the process that Morningside is going through.
It would not be a first come, first serve basis. It would be based on who would benefit the most (those at a higher level since they have fewer instructors available to them) and those who would benefit the auditors the most (those who ride well and demonstrate the exercises well). I am only guessing that they are looking for accomplished riders.
And I would want to make certain that the participants were well matched to their assigned group. I would NOT allow participants to choose their own groups since they would not be privy to the skill and need levels of the other participants.
I’ve organized a lot of clinics…I wouldn’t do a straight first come first basis…but trying to pick who would benefit most is impossible. Some of the BNR…are LOUSEY students. So IME…the organizer should pick who fits well in their groups and will be good for the clinic…but also, who benefits them. Who is likely to attend other clinics they organize etc.
If you focus on “exclusive” as a way of marketing…you turn off a lot of people who otherwise might attend your clinics. Instead of using those words…which reflects a mindset…you just say limited spots are available. In the end…they should pick who they want but I’m not a big fan of advertising a clinic this way. If they have limited spots…just say that.
Most of the top dressage clinics…there is no applying. They call you and ask if you want to ride…then if they have spots, they will open it up but still cherry pick. I have no issue with that. Also, I have no issue with the lack of descriptions/price etc. Honestly–they could have filled his clinic without opening it at all…then just marketed for auditors to attend. Personally…that is probably what I would have done…what they are doing is WAY more work.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;7169591]
Indeed, I’m sure they want to make sure you are right for the clinic. As one who as organized clinics, there is nothing more distressing than having someone show up who disrupts and detracts from the overall experience of the participants.
The Morningside staff and their trainers know what they are doing. I happen to know and respect them.[/QUOTE]
I’m sure they do, absolutely no disrespect intended. Just trying to offer a different perspective as to the selection process. Organizing a clinic is a great deal of work, I’m glad there are folks willing to do it.
And for what it’s worth, WFP is my current absolute favorite ULR. Really wish I could come audit! That guy is incredible in the tack, I’m wicked curious to know what he’s like as a clinician.
EXACTLY!!!
Here’s the deal. If you have a legitimate concern or question regarding the clinic, use your brain and take it up with somebody who can give you an answer. This would be either a) the clinic organizer who has her email listed openly in the previously referenced EN article or b) Me, who wrote the EN article.
Complaining on this forum achieves absolutely NOTHING. If you have an issue with the way the clinic is organized, then by all means, don’t attend. If you have a personal issue with the organizer, then please keep it to yourself because it is 100% irrelevant to this matter. As a side note, insulting the abilities of the organizer on a public forum is not a really great way to get into a clinic, period.
The clinician is a masterful rider who has achieved more than any of us mere mortals can imagine, and thus brings with him an amazing opportunity to learn, no matter where you sit. He is the one who requested Training level and above and he is also the one who capped the entries at 16 per day, as he feels that he cannot do a good job with more. If you have a problem with this, either a) get over yourself or b) go complain to him!
The organizer is a well versed, well respected woman with a company that has maintained good working relationships with the likes of Edward Gal, Stephen Bradley, Robert Dover and Debbie McDonald. If you feel that you can do a superior job than her, have at it. However, this means you have to come out from behind your shroud of anonymity that you so fully enjoy on the COTH forums and talk to real people, so good luck with that.
Thank you to all of you above me who have responded to the irrational and inconsequential rabble rousing of others with intelligence and respect. You know who you are.
If you feel at all inclined to dislike me for my cut and dry reaction to this absurd bellyaching, feel free. You know where to find me if you’d like to tell me to my face, but once again that means you have to reveal your true identity.
For those of you who choose to view this clinic as an exciting opportunity to learn from one of the best riders in the world, join the club! There should be no negativity involved!
:applause::applause::applause:
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