Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[gailbyrd]

@Jealoushe

You can Self Defense until you are blue in the face, but evidence doesn’t lie.

Except the we (we in the general population speculating on what happened) don’t have the evidence. All we know is LK was shot, MB and RG were injured. The how’s, when’s, where’s (OK, at the house but just where at the house) WE don’t know. We only have one side (and that timeline/injury seems to change day to day) and what the police have released. What the police have released have just come from that ONE statement. Not from what they may have subsequently discovered.

[Jealoushe]

@gailbyrd

Except the we (we in the general population speculating on what happened) don’t have the evidence. All we know is LK was shot, MB and RG were injured. The how’s, when’s, where’s (OK, at the house but just where at the house) WE don’t know. We only have one side (and that timeline/injury seems to change day to day) and what the police have released. What the police have released have just come from that ONE statement. Not from what they may have subsequently discovered.

You are right we know very little. But we do know he used a gun, against unarmed. In NJ that doesn’t qualify as Self Defense.

[Denali6298]

@Cat Tap

This thread is like a disease that I can’t seem to shred, so I am still on. Playing psychologist here and have come to the conclusion that Jealoushe’s opinions are based on her experience as a victim. I think BigMama is just trying to stir the pot. Though we don’t have the same gun culture here in Canada we are not immune to domestic violence.

I do have a gun. It is now old and rusty but I know I could shoot someone to defend my home and animals.

I don’t think BigMama is trying to stir the pot. She has made numerous posts alluding to how much better the Canadian culture is than American culture with regards to gun violence be it domestic or otherwise. It’s her opinion and that’s fine. I have never agreed with her impressions but in this case she is correct seeing as how people are trying to justify a shooting due to it involving people they know.

I also think people are boiling it down to good guy vs. bad guy as a way to wrap their heads around the situation.

Of course @Jealoushe’s experiences make her view this through a different lens. That happens with people who are victims of violent crime. I don’t think that means her opinions are wrong because she doesn’t know these specific people.

[clanter]

@Denali6298

I also think people are boiling it down to good guy vs. bad guy as a way to wrap their heads around the situation.

.

and then there are us who have to deal with insane people who will not go away and understand how this came to fruition

[Pony_Fixer]

There are a lot of reasons why people are more likely to become victims of violent crime.

One of them is to be a terrible, toxic person.
One of them is to be a black or brown person in the US.
One of them is to be a woman in an abusive relationship.
There are many others.

Many of you put LK in that first category. I don’t know her, but if she is as terrible as people say, it probably increases ones chances over the course of their life of becoming a victim of violence. However, that does not mean she “deserves” it any more than any of the other categories.

And before people say, “She could change and not be so terrible”–you have no idea what has made her (or any other person) who she is and act the way she does. People are complicated.

I have no dog in this fight; there are no winners, only losers in this situation. But I had been pushed (and pushed, and pushed) by a toxic human in my life. I would have been more apt to end my life than to shoot that person.

[FitzE]

@Dragonfly90

Police were incompetent and sloppy so disregard their work, victim is such a horrible person so not surprising she was shot, if he wanted to actually kill her he would have done a better job of shooting her, she was nasty in social media exchanges in the past with other nasty people so she is lucky she wasn’t shot before, she should have left when he told her to…going to need better arguments than these and actually evidence to get him off. We will see.

No one wants him to get off. Or maybe at most one or two people. The posts that are anti LK are because by her own SM trail and police record, let alone other things of hers that have been posted here, she is a bullying, body-shaming, harassing, lying, false report making [edit]. Period. Most of us think that a man should go to prison for shooting a woman who is [edit]. Can you grasp the difference? It’s important.

[Denali6298]

@clanter

and then there are us who have to deal with insane people who will not go away and understand how this came to fruition

I can totally see how it escalated. That isn’t what I’m saying at all. All I’m saying is everyone involved had choices along the way. The choices resulted in this outcome. I’m just not going to place all the blame on one party or another.

ETA: shooting another person is no joke. It’s something, no matter how necessary weighs on a person. I cannot imagine how MB must be feeling right now but have a pretty good idea. What bothers me about the posts is how people seem to be (maybe not but that’s how it reads) shrugging off the toll shooting a person takes on both the shooter and the victim.

[roseymare]

I don’t think people are shrugging it off, I think it just hasn’t come up yet and now that you did bring it up, I am pretty sure many on this thread will agree.

[BigMama1]

@Denali6298

I don’t think BigMama is trying to stir the pot. She has made numerous posts alluding to how much better the Canadian culture is than American culture with regards to gun violence be it domestic or otherwise. It’s her opinion and that’s fine. I have never agreed with her impressions but in this case she is correct seeing as how people are trying to justify a shooting due to it involving people they know.

I also think people are boiling it down to good guy vs. bad guy as a way to wrap their heads around the situation.

Of course @Jealoushe’s experiences make her view this through a different lens. That happens with people who are victims of violent crime. I don’t think that means her opinions are wrong because she doesn’t know these specific people.

Yes. I didn’t say Canadian culture is better, just different when it comes to guns. “Better” in terms of the shooting rates has not come up and isn’t up for discussion here. People shut down that line of discussion because they didn’t want it to turn into a gun control debate but it’s not. It’s simply an acknowledgement that cultural differences about carrying guns for personal protection will colour how you view this particularly situation and the choices MB made. As will your personal history as a victim of violence, abuse, etc. We all bring our own perspectives to the table.

[Denali6298]

@roseymare

I don’t think people are shrugging it off, I think it just hasn’t come up yet and now that you did bring it up, I am pretty sure many on this thread will agree.

The point I was trying to make to clanter was just because people here won’t place all the blame on LK nor will we justify the shooting as a “good shoot” without actual evidence doesn’t mean we haven’t had that level of crazy in our lives. It just means we have handled it differently. Sometimes that means uprooting our lives just to get away.

I think it’s presumptuous to say that those who don’t lay all the blame at LK’s feet haven’t had to deal with that level of fear and that level of crazy. It takes a toll on a normal person to even hold someone at gun point. It’s a scary thing that leaves a lasting impact. Never mind pulling the trigger.

[gailbyrd]

@Jealoushe

You are right we know very little. But we do know he used a gun, against unarmed. In NJ that doesn’t qualify as Self Defense.

But we (those of us behind the keyboards and computer screens who weren’t there in person and who haven’t been to the crime scene to gather evidence) can’t be sure the shooting wasn’t in self-defense against an unarmed person. We have been told (again, only by the person who was shot (who’s story appears to change by the day) and her bf) this appears to be the case but we don’t have any evidence to that and the police haven’t released their subsequent findings.

[Angela_Freda]

@clanter

and then there are us who have to deal with insane people who will not go away and understand how this came to fruition

Exactly. One can understand how this spiraled out of control, without agreeing with the ending, or even any/all of the actions of the parties involved.
That’s my own p.o.v on it, that there’s room for this to have been self-defense or an unintentional discharge in the course of a scuffle of some sort, as easily (or moreso** ) as it was premeditated, intentional attempted to kill this woman.
That doesn’t make any hypothesis true, its one of many, many theories and personally I think most of them are as likely as plausible as the next one.

** committing premeditated murder, as others have suggested, is a very grave, hard choice. Pulling that trigger even when ones life is in danger, for most people, would not be easy.
I include MB in those “most people” because I’ve not seen anything to suggest he’s not like most of us.

[Denali6298]

@gailbyrd

But we (those of us behind the keyboards and computer screens who weren’t there in person and who haven’t been to the crime scene to gather evidence) can’t be sure the shooting wasn’t in self-defense against an unarmed person. We have been told (again, only by the person who was shot (who’s story appears to change by the day) and her bf) this appears to be the case but we don’t have any evidence to that and the police haven’t released their subsequent findings.

Pretty sure if the police found evidence of another weapon, his lawyer as well as the judge would have mentioned it in the bail hearing.

Also, normal people don’t carry a gun unless they actually intend to use it. That’s gun safety 101.

[Dragonfly90]

@FitzE

No one wants him to get off. Or maybe at most one or two people. The posts that are anti LK are because by her own SM trail and police record, let alone other things of hers that have been posted here, she is a bullying, body-shaming, harassing, lying, false report making racist. Period. Most of us think that a man should go to prison for shooting a woman who is an awful person and continues to be an awful person. Can you grasp the difference? It’s important.

Yes, I grasp the difference, it wasn’t necessary to speak to me in such a condescending way.
Why is there the need to go on and on ad nauseam about how awful her online behavior is, plenty of bad online behavior to go around. It is apparently the thing to do.
Until new info on the case comes to light, time to sit back and wait. For me anyways.

[hank]

@Pony Fixer

I have no dog in this fight; there are no winners, only losers in this situation. But I had been pushed (and pushed, and pushed) by a toxic human in my life. I would have been more apt to end my life than to shoot that person.

You have a good point- an empathetic person becomes self destructive, however, what we have here is two narcissistic people colliding.

[Denali6298]

So honest questions, why couldn’t they have packed up early and moved to Florida? Does he not own the barn there? What were the clients thinking? Or did LK only show her crazy after hours?

[Jealoushe]

@gailbyrd

But we (those of us behind the keyboards and computer screens who weren’t there in person and who haven’t been to the crime scene to gather evidence) can’t be sure the shooting wasn’t in self-defense against an unarmed person. We have been told (again, only by the person who was shot (who’s story appears to change by the day) and her bf) this appears to be the case but we don’t have any evidence to that and the police haven’t released their subsequent findings.

Verified media reports say otherwise. I am not talking about the NYT article. Normally MSM is considered a verified source.

But again I must ask, why believe the story from MB and his friends over the police, the media, and LK?

[Jealoushe]

@Angela Freda

** committing premeditated murder, as others have suggested, is a very grave, hard choice. Pulling that trigger even when ones life is in danger, for most people, would not be easy.
I include MB in those “most people” because I’ve not seen anything to suggest he’s not like most of us.

Ironically, this is one trait that lines up perfectly with typical killers. Most, not all, but most of the time, friends and family can not believe the person they know could do these things. It has to be THE most common comment made by associates of murderers, serial killers, rapists, etc after the fact. Psychopaths/sociopaths hide in plain sight, not letting their true violent ways known to anyone around them.

[gailbyrd]

@Jealoushe

Verified media reports say otherwise. I am not talking about the NYT article. Normally MSM is considered a verified source.

But again I must ask, why believe the story from MB and his friends over the police, the media, and LK?

The MSM is getting their info from the shooting victim and the preliminary police reports. There is no story from MB and friends. They have remained silent as far as I know. At least MB et al aren’t putting anything on social media. Maybe they are talking elsewhere but not on social media

[Angela_Freda]

@Denali6298

So honest question, why couldn’t they have packed up early and moved to Florida? Does he not own the barn there? What were the clients thinking? Or did LK only show her crazy after hours?

And leave Lk and RG there? To run roughshod over your investment that’s not just yours, but belongs to others in the LLC as well?
Leave your business? Your clients? All the things put in place to summer at their NJ farm, like supplies already purchased (hay, shavings,feed…). Make your staff move back at a cost to them, monetary and otherwise?

Ask clients, who may/ likely live in the NJ area, and lease when in FL to just pack up early, incur more costs in an already pricey sport? Risk losing those who prefer to do summer shows where they do summer shows rather than go back to FL? Leaving jobs, families, etc?

I’m not sure what he owns in FL… but he owns the farm in NJ.
I think this is a better question for LK and RG who have another home, and did not have any stake in MBs home in NJ, such that he should have left instead.