Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[Angela_Freda]

@Silverbridge

I didn’t say it represented a majority, and I don’t think anyone else did. I’m aware it’s a fraction of the many various points being made. I only pointed out that that attitude DOES exist as part of the discussion here. Others have said that NO, that attitude is NOT here as part of the discussion at all. “Did not see it.” “Show me”. “NOBODY has said she deserved it.” Etc. So, I’m showing it.

It’s a long, fast-evolving discussion and many points have been made. The point that people who get shot are often looking to get shot is AMONG the points made. The fact that many people didn’t notice specific posts, doesn’t zap them out of existence. The fact that they’re creepily made by someone who joined the forum just to make them, doesn’t zap them out of existence.

It does to me, compared to the other posters who g-you seem to lump with that new, troll. Posters g-you’ve known here, for years, certainly should not be lumped in with new opportunistic trolls likely only baiting.

The fact that you or I don’t accept the idea as anything close to valid (that people get shot because they deserve to) doesn’t mean someone else didn’t say that, somewhere or that others didn’t imply it, as well. He did. They did. Someone else just did, even as I’m writing this reply.

The post I screenshot got 17 likes, so the idea that she deserved it resonated with 17 people, at least. And it was later quoted and reacted to by both Edre and BigMama, as the discussion continued. It’s PART of the discussion. Of 1200 posts. It’s not “NOT” there.

Nobody has said it’s how most people feel, or that it IS the whole discussion.

But it’s the one point, the one comment you chose to comment on. Among all the other interesting thoughts and information about tenant landlord relations, contracts, and trainer/student relationships.
That’s your choice, but none of us have to accept [or agree not to negate] that you seem to think one post with 17 likes is some kind of thesis.

[trubandloki]

@Angela Freda

That’s your choice, but none of us have to accept [or agree not to negate] that you seem to think one post with 17 likes is some kind of thesis.

And that some of those likes might be because some people did not read that post the same way you are reading it.

The posts here seem to agree that in no way did anyone deserved to get shot here. No matter if the the story is the woman getting short or if you twist it around and the woman is doing the shooting (the hypothetical example).

That does not negate the fact that certain things we do in life make it more likely bad things might happen to us. Still not deserved, no matter your gender or the gender of the person shooting you.

[Jealoushe]

@mswillie

Pointing out that people’s actions can influence what happens in their lives is not blaming or saying they “deserve” it.

A person who is addicted to drugs is more likely to die from an overdose, does not mean they deserve it.

Someone who climbs mountains is more likely to suffer a fatal fall than most, again they don’t “deserve” it.

But if the house guest (and note I say if) post is true, this is far more than someone who is annoying and lacks empathy. Anyone who would mentally torture a person who lost their child to drowning is a very sick person. I can’t diagnose but that level of cruelty is way over and above “annoying”.

As a quick aside, when I was a teen I was bullied mercilessly because I was fat, smart, and didn’t fit in with the “right” crowd. I started arming myself with a 6" straight blade Buck knife whenever I went out of the house alone. I’m glad now I never felt that I had to use it but I was in a mental state at the time that I think I could have under the right circumstances.

It just seems like the posters here are ignoring that MBs actions are what has influenced what has happened, not just LKs. He gets a pass because “good horseman”, she does not because "Crazy b*tch).

If blame is to be cast it should be cast on the shooter also, if you must blame the victim. Without the facts, there is nothing for me to say that LK deserves blame. Was she a horrible person? Maybe, sounds like it could be true, but MB was the one who drove to them, and shot the gun multiple times with intent to kill. Those are the facts as we know and until I see otherwise, LK is not getting any blame from me. She can still be a horrible person and also an undeserving victim.

[Silverbridge]

That’s a good one. Because I notice something exists, and because I’m able to cite it when challenged to, I think it’s a thesis? No. I think it’s disgusting. And as I said, creepy.

Is the COTH dressage forum so dear in many people’s hearts and daily routines that they cannot stand to accept that there’s been victim blaming as part of the discussion? Is noting that the discussion has taken some ugly turns somehow an insult to every other poster commenting? Would I be a more respectable and respectful poster by aligning with those who choose not to notice?

“Some people here have blamed the victim or implied she deserved what she got.” What a bizarre thing to take personally.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Jealoushe

It just seems like the posters here are ignoring that MBs actions are what has influenced what has happened, not just LKs. He gets a pass because “good horseman”, she does not because "Crazy b*tch).

If blame is to be cast it should be cast on the shooter also, if you must blame the victim. Without the facts, there is nothing for me to say that LK deserves blame. Was she a horrible person? Maybe, sounds like it could be true, but MB was the one who drove to them, and shot the gun multiple times with intent to kill. Those are the facts as we know and until I see otherwise, LK is not getting any blame from me. She can still be a horrible person and also an undeserving victim.

Absolutely. In this case, we cannot say that the shooter is not to blame at all, and MB is not getting a pass here. I think most people are agreeing there, but are simply stating his motives or how he’d justify it (even though it’s not justified).

I think people are getting confused with those that are stating motives and other speculations and calling it victim blaming. Maybe there is a fine line there.

[JustTheTicket]

It’s not victim blaming to say she pushed someone to the point that they responded, in this case very aggressively, back. Neither party is innocent. He shouldn’t have shot her and he should pay for that however the courts decide, but she’s not an innocent victim who happened to be in the wrong place. She facilitated things along. I’m sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings, but it is what it is.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Silverbridge

That’s a good one. Because I notice something exists, and because I’m able to cite it when challenged to, I think it’s a thesis? No. I think it’s disgusting. And as I said, creepy.

Is the COTH dressage forum so dear in many people’s hearts and daily routines that they cannot stand to accept that there’s been victim blaming as part of the discussion? Is noting that the discussion has taken some ugly turns somehow an insult to every other poster commenting? Would I be a more respectable and respectful poster by aligning with those who choose not to notice?

“Some people here have blamed the victim or implied she deserved what she got.” What a bizarre thing to take personally.

FWIW, and I appreciate your previous citation by the way, I think people are getting upset because others are not understanding what they mean, or reading too much into their words, or perhaps their words imply something but it is not what they meant at all. It can be frustrating in a conversation when you think you got your point across, but others don’t seem to get it. It could be a matter of phrasing or perspective. So that could be why some get a bit uppity, if you will. Gun violence is a topic that many people are quite passionate about so perhaps that is why there are more personal feelings involved.

[kcmel]

@Jealoushe

If the houseguests post is true, it only shows that LK was a seriously annoying person who clearly lacked any type of empathy, but it also proves nothing other than those who don’t want to be around drama need to seperate themselves from it. That’s why you can block and delete on social media.

Seriously? Annoying and lacking in empathy? Someone who cuts in line at the grocery stores is annoying and lacking in empathy. If what the houseguest posts is true, and what LK has said on her own FB page, and what others have said that have been at least partially substantiated, she is pathologically manipulative and possibly deranged.

[Disclaimer: she did not deserve to be shot.]

[Angela_Freda]

@Jealoushe

It just seems like the posters here are ignoring that MBs actions are what has influenced what has happened, not just LKs. He gets a pass because “good horseman”, she does not because "Crazy b*tch).

He’s getting what may appear to you to be a pass because whatever he did, if anything noteworthy, prior to shooting her was kept quiet.
Was he posting on his Facebook all the little digs and issues they had?
Were any of the people in his camp who might have, likely would have been privy? Not that I have seen.
That’s the thing, we can’t point out his blame, his issues pre shooting… cause they aren’t out there for all to see, for all of us to point to as evidence that he did more than shoot her.
That may come out later, it likely will come out later, what he did or did not do. Now, we have nothing beyond that final [let’s be clear here] horrible act of shooting her.
And that the other people involved or on the peripherie, weren’t, if drama was unfolding but they kept it off social media, honestly… is a plus to them frankly.
Whether that drama was all LK, or a combination of several people behaving badly it is still [to me] admirable that the dirty laundry stayed in the basket.

My POV on MB, and the other parties who may have been involved is still up in the air, largely because there’s nothing to flesh it out with, thanks to their not airing laundry, dirty or otherwise anywhere public.

That is not a pass. It’s a lack of comment due to nothing to build a POV with.

If blame is to be cast it should be cast on the shooter also, if you must blame the victim. Without the facts, there is nothing for me to say that LK deserves blame. Was she a horrible person? Maybe, sounds like it could be true, but MB was the one who drove to them,
He did? Saying this makes it seem like they were not living right on his farm. As if he had miles and miles of time to get there… do we even know he drove at all?
and shot the gun multiple times with intent to kill
I am not sure we know what his intent was. or if he brought the gun with him or if it was on the person of LK or Fiance before MB gained possession of it and fired two shots injuring LK.
I point out that you seem to have things listed as facts that we don’t know -are- actually facts, not to exonerate MB of any responsibility, but to simply point out that the facts we actually know as true, solidly known facts, are slim.
Those are the facts as we know and until I see otherwise, LK is not getting any blame from me. She can still be a horrible person and also an undeserving victim.

I think the bolded bit is what ALL of us have been suggesting.

I can only speak for myself. RIB

[Angela_Freda]

@Silverbridge

That’s a good one. Because I notice something exists, and because I’m able to cite it when challenged to, I think it’s a thesis? No. I think it’s disgusting. And as I said, creepy.

Is the COTH dressage forum so dear in many people’s hearts and daily routines that they cannot stand to accept that there’s been victim blaming as part of the discussion? Is noting that the discussion has taken some ugly turns somehow an insult to every other poster commenting? Would I be a more respectable and respectful poster by aligning with those who choose not to notice?

“Some people here have blamed the victim or implied she deserved what she got.” What a bizarre thing to take personally.

It’s a horrible thing to throw out there without citing whom you are claiming has done it, leaving it to appear as if it’s rampant or widespread or popular.
Had you quoted the people who you believed had done it, it would likely have seemed less of a sweeping generalization. And not a thesis.
And to clarify what you clearly misunderstood… I was not saying YOU were making this your thesis… but that you seem to be suggesting many on this thread are agreeing with the idea of blaming the victim, iow ascribing to the thesis: she is to blame for getting herself shot.

That’s the more respectful thing to do, if being respectful is your goal, to cite whomever you are speaking to in this large, broad conversation. To direct the comment about victim blaming at those who you see/believe have done so, at whomever deserves it.
Kinda like you wish people would do wrt the parties in this shooting incident and whatever may have lead up to it… iow blame MB not LK.

[Jealoushe]

@kcmel

Seriously? Annoying and lacking in empathy? Someone who cuts in line at the grocery stores is annoying and lacking in empathy. If what the houseguest posts is true, and what LK has said on her own FB page, and what others have said that have been at least partially substantiated, she is pathologically manipulative and possibly deranged.

[Disclaimer: she did not deserve to be shot.]

Well that’s why I said, delete and block is an option on SM. No one needs to keep receiving messages on Facebook or any form of cell phone/social media these days. Block it and call the authorities. It’s not difficult.

There are a lot of mentally unstable, horrible people out there doing a lot worse. Maybe I am desinsitized to it.

IF it is a true post, then I would suggest LK has some serious mental health issues. Even more reason not to bring a gun to a converstation with someone like that.

@Angela Freda I am going by what MSM has reported, and that is that MB got in his vehicle and drove to where LK was (across the farm), and confronted her after hearing about reports to child welfare services. He shot her, at her fiance, missed, and shot again, then the fiance then tackled MB to the ground.

Since MSM is reporting it, I would take those as facts for now. Until the trial, that is all we can attest to being the story IMO.

[mswillie]

@Jealoushe

It just seems like the posters here are ignoring that MBs actions are what has influenced what has happened, not just LKs. He gets a pass because “good horseman”, she does not because "Crazy b*tch).

If blame is to be cast it should be cast on the shooter also, if you must blame the victim. Without the facts, there is nothing for me to say that LK deserves blame. Was she a horrible person? Maybe, sounds like it could be true, but MB was the one who drove to them, and shot the gun multiple times with intent to kill. Those are the facts as we know and until I see otherwise, LK is not getting any blame from me. She can still be a horrible person and also an undeserving victim.

No he doesn’t get a pass from me either. I know nothing about him other than what I’ve read here. But I want to see what all the extenuating circumstances are. Why did he drive there? Was it with intent to kill? I don’t know. I want to know how it all really played out before passing judgement. There seems to be a contingent here who would have him drawn and quartered because sweet little LK who never hurt a fly was quietly sitting on her front porch reading a novel when big, mean MB drove up and shot her in the chest unprovoked.

I’m guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle and honestly some of the information I’ve seen makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it’ll turn out he’s got a horrible temper and that was his intent. Maybe it will turn out that LK had a weapon that her boyfriend disposed of before the police showed up. I don’t know. What I do know is that things are rarely as simple as they seem at first glance.

And no, with the information that has been released to date he shouldn’t have shot her. That’s why I’m a proponent of more stringent gun laws. If this were a crime of passion so to speak, it’s easy to pull a trigger but a lot harder (not impossible by any means) to attack someone with another weapon. But that’s a topic for a another BB as it would likely fall under forbidden topics here.

[SnicklefritzG]

This

@JustTheTicket

It’s not victim blaming to say she pushed someone to the point that they responded, in this case very aggressively, back. Neither party is innocent. He shouldn’t have shot her and he should pay for that however the courts decide, but she’s not an innocent victim who happened to be in the wrong place. She facilitated things along. I’m sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings, but it is what it is.

[BigMama1]

@Sticky Situation

Politically correct or not, people who involve themselves in confrontational situations are more likely to be on the receiving end of violence than those who don’t. This does not mean they “deserve it,” but there is an increased likelihood it will happen.

It is not “victim blaming” to point this out.

It kinda is. Not saying she deserved it but essentially saying it’s her fault is putting the blame on the victim. There have been a lot of imaginative scripts developed here to how she “pushed” him to take such drastic action but little time has been spent here trying to speculate what MB may have done or said t her to provoke this dramatic change in her attitude toward him. None of us know on either side. I guess some find the speculating fun? Hopefully some actual information will
start to come out as the case works its way through the system

[2centsworth]

@Knights Mom

Oh and for the record: A landlord removing a tenants door to get them to move is illegal and is categorized as an Illegal Lockout.

Landlord/Tenant is one of the aspects of my job in law. Among other things, I issue eviction warrants for a living.

So don’t do that! It’s considered naughty!

Only is there is a lease does this apply. If there is no contract, or lease, then she is not a tenant pese, and has no right to expect a certain type of accommodation. As a housing professional, I deal with squatters all the time. Often friends of former tenants, that stay when the tenant moves. In those cases I have no obligations to provide any type of housing, safe or otherwise, as the house is “vacant.”

[caffeinated]

@mswillie

I’m guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle and honestly some of the information I’ve seen makes absolutely no sense.

I’m starting to come to the conclusion that the main reason none of this makes sense to a lot of us is simply we are not crazy people.

At every turn both of them had options besides what they chose to do. She could have stopped escalating and gotten herself and the horses out. He could have filed actual legal orders for multiple things - made proper reports of harassment, filed a lien if there were unpaid bills, gone to court for orders of protection and/or eviction. She could have NOT gone after the kids and kept trying to make his life hell (I don’t feel bad saying that - I saw her statements online that this was EXACTLY what she was trying to do). And of course, going back further than that, if either of them had a functioning brain cell or two there would have been some kind of proper contract drawn up detailing expectations and responsibilities and payments before she ever set foot on the place to begin with.

I kept wanting to “figure it out” and try to make sense of the sequence of events… but… it’s impossible. Because there’s too much stupid and crazy and belligerent testosterone and bad decisions that no matter what, nobody with a functioning decency/good decision meter is going to be able to understand or piece together the “why” here… As much as I wanted to I think it’s time to throw in the towel and wait for the lifetime movie.

[caffeinated]

@2centsworth

Only is there is a lease does this apply. If there is no contract, or lease, then she is not a tenant pese, and has no right to expect a certain type of accommodation. As a housing professional, I deal with squatters all the time. Often friends of former tenants, that stay when the tenant moves. In those cases I have no obligations to provide any type of housing, safe or otherwise, as the house is “vacant.”

I don’t think this is entirely true - people can be considered “tenants” legally even if they are squatters, depending on where they are. In many states people are considered tenants just by virtue of living on a property for a certain length of time regardless of documentation or agreements. At the very least the court system will treat people that way and it can take ages to iron out, especially if said squatters have done things like changing their address with USPS, etc.

[endlessclimb]

@BigMama1

It kinda is. Not saying she deserved it but essentially saying it’s her fault is putting the blame on the victim. There have been a lot of imaginative scripts developed here to how she “pushed” him to take such drastic action but little time has been spent here trying to speculate what MB may have done or said t her to provoke this dramatic change in her attitude toward him. None of us know on either side. I guess some find the speculating fun? Hopefully some actual information will
start to come out as the case works its way through the system

It’s not her fault MB took it to the max and shot her. Not at all, not in the slightest, not even an iota. He should have taken the proper legal channels to get rid of her peacefully.

But, with saying that he would need to pursue legal action against her, you are ADMITTING she has done some wrong things or is being a PITA in a way that is legally measurable. That alone means she isn’t lily white in the whole thing. She’s a victim of a shooting. MB is a victim of severe and malicious harassment, which understandably is being clouded by his own actions.

If she was instigating stuff malevolently or with ulterior motives, it IS her fault that there was a need to respond to anything at all - be that a verbal altercation, a court date, or the fire marshals called. She didn’t HAVE to be a harassment/annoyance to him. She chose to do that. As did she choose to call ICE, squat in his house, and call CPS on an unrelated individual to this whole mess.

She does not get a free pass in this. From all accounts, and I’m sure there will be character witnesses etc, it seems like she was a user with her head in the clouds, with a healthy streak of crazy and meanness in there, and has spent a decent portion of her life playing this game.

You lay in the bed you make. This time, unfortunately for her, it’s a literal bed.

[merrygoround]

Again I say unto you,

the only version of events was that mouthed by RG, LK’s boyfriend, fiancee, employee, whatever. It has been said her DNA was on the gun. Hmmmm! No word on gun’s ownership? No comment on the ammo. No comment on any extra ammo. I imagine most gun owners have more bullets than those already in the gun.

Just some known facts?

[hut-ho78]

@2centsworth

Only is there is a lease does this apply. If there is no contract, or lease, then she is not a tenant pese, and has no right to expect a certain type of accommodation. As a housing professional, I deal with squatters all the time. Often friends of former tenants, that stay when the tenant moves. In those cases I have no obligations to provide any type of housing, safe or otherwise, as the house is “vacant.”

New Jersey has a “tenant at will” and eviction is easier for those.