Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[Sticky_Situation]

@BigMama1

It kinda is. Not saying she deserved it but essentially saying it’s her fault is putting the blame on the victim. There have been a lot of imaginative scripts developed here to how she “pushed” him to take such drastic action but little time has been spent here trying to speculate what MB may have done or said t her to provoke this dramatic change in her attitude toward him. None of us know on either side. I guess some find the speculating fun? Hopefully some actual information will
start to come out as the case works its way through the system

If saying that the victim’s actions in any way contributed to the outcome is always “victim blaming” … then is victim blaming always wrong? What about the classic situation where a woman is physically and verbally abused by her husband for years, then finally snaps and shoots him? Is it wrong to speculate that the husband’s abuse of his wife contributed to the eventual outcome? Obviously this is a totally different situation than what went on here … but I’m genuinely curious, because earlier in this thread I was told that any questioning of LK’s behavior, or considering the possibility that it may have been self defense on MB’s part, was equivalent to saying a rape victim ‘was asking for it’ because of how she was dressed.

[hut-ho78]

@merrygoround

Again I say unto you,

the only version of events was that mouthed by RG, LK’s boyfriend, fiancee, employee, whatever. It has been said her DNA was on the gun. Hmmmm! No word on gun’s ownership? No comment on the ammo. No comment on any extra ammo. I imagine most gun owners have more bullets than those already in the gun.

Just some known facts?

The DNA on a gun was an example of another event, not this one.

[BigMama1]

@endlessclimb

It’s not her fault MB took it to the max and shot her. Not at all, not in the slightest, not even an iota. He should have taken the proper legal channels to get rid of her peacefully.

But, with saying that he would need to pursue legal action against her, you are ADMITTING she has done some wrong things or is being a PITA in a way that is legally measurable. That alone means she isn’t lily white in the whole thing. She’s a victim of a shooting. MB is a victim of severe and malicious harassment, which understandably is being clouded by his own actions.

If she was instigating stuff malevolently or with ulterior motives, it IS her fault that there was a need to respond to anything at all - be that a verbal altercation, a court date, or the fire marshals called. She didn’t HAVE to be a harassment/annoyance to him. She chose to do that. As did she choose to call ICE, squat in his house, and call CPS on an unrelated individual to this whole mess.

She does not get a free pass in this. From all accounts, and I’m sure there will be character witnesses etc, it seems like she was a user with her head in the clouds, with a healthy streak of crazy and meanness in there, and has spent a decent portion of her life playing this game.

You lay in the bed you make. This time, unfortunately for her, it’s a literal bed.

Except we don’t know who “started it,” to use playground talk. Her harassment of him may have been in retaliation for something he instigated. We. Just. Don’t. Know.

[BigMama1]

@merrygoround

Again I say unto you,

the only version of events was that mouthed by RG, LK’s boyfriend, fiancee, employee, whatever. It has been said her DNA was on the gun. Hmmmm! No word on gun’s ownership? No comment on the ammo. No comment on any extra ammo. I imagine most gun owners have more bullets than those already in the gun.

Just some known facts?

Where has it been said her DNA was on the gun? I haven’t seen any reports of DNA eveidence. Somebody here used that phrase in reference to a different shooting though.

[BigMama1]

@Sticky Situation

If saying that the victim’s actions in any way contributed to the outcome is always “victim blaming” … then is victim blaming always wrong? What about the classic situation where a woman is physically and verbally abused by her husband for years, then finally snaps and shoots him? Is it wrong to speculate that the husband’s abuse of his wife contributed to the eventual outcome? Obviously this is a totally different situation than what went on here … but I’m genuinely curious, because earlier in this thread I was told that any questioning of LK’s behavior, or considering the possibility that it may have been self defense on MB’s part, was equivalent to saying a rape victim ‘was asking for it’ because of how she was dressed.

Saying she behaved badly is not at all the same thing as saying she played a role in getting herself shot. The reasons she got shot are that (a) MB had access to a gun and (b) he chose to use it.

[Sticky_Situation]

@BigMama1

Saying she behaved badly is not at all the same thing as saying she played a role in getting herself shot. The reasons she got shot are that (a) MB had access to a gun and (b) he chose to use it.

So in the scenario of an abusive husband being shot by his wife … his abuse is not nice but irrelevant to eventual outcome, because the wife had access to a gun and the decision to shoot him was hers alone? Would a jury see it that way?

[MeisterMagnolia]

@BigMama1

Saying she behaved badly is not at all the same thing as saying she played a role in getting herself shot. The reasons she got shot are that (a) MB had access to a gun and (b) he chose to use it.

You seem completely hung up on the phrase “victim blaming” - and to be using it to relieve LK of any responsibility in what happened. Your two reasons for why she got shot paints a picture that’s completely black and white. That is not my takeaway about what happened that fateful day. There are many, many grey areas that have yet to be revealed.

Horrible judgement seems to have been practiced by all involved. LK has a history, described by multiple sources, that could well have set the stage for what transpired. I’m not blaming her - I’m pointing out, as have many others - that she too bears responsibility for horrible choices and behavior that may well have put her in a situation one step too far.

[Maude]

@kcmel

Seriously? Annoying and lacking in empathy? Someone who cuts in line at the grocery stores is annoying and lacking in empathy. If what the houseguest posts is true, and what LK has said on her own FB page, and what others have said that have been at least partially substantiated, she is pathologically manipulative and possibly deranged.

[Disclaimer: she did not deserve to be shot.]

This. [Edit] but I do not agree with shooting someone unless it is in self defense.

[BigMama1]

@Sticky Situation

So in the scenario of an abusive husband being shot by his wife … his abuse is not nice but irrelevant to eventual outcome, because the wife had access to a gun and the decision to shoot him was hers alone? Would a jury see it that way?

Unless it was self defense, probably yes. Who knows? We don’t know what prompted either of the parties to behave the way they did so all these hypothetical questions seem moot.

[BigMama1]

@Maude

This. It sounds like LK asked for it, but I do not agree with shooting someone unless it is in self defense.

It sounds she asked for what, exactly? These are the comments I don’t understand. Obviously she didn’t ask to be shot. Ask to be evicted? Ask to be beaten, as somebody upthread suggested? Maybe MB was “asking for it” and that’s why she started all the BSC behaviour. We don’t have nearly enough info about who did what to whom and why, and who (if anyone) was “asking for it.”

[BunnyHugger]

Any updates on her condition?

[mswillie]

@BigMama1

Unless it was self defense, probably yes. Who knows? We don’t know what prompted either of the parties to behave the way they did so all these hypothetical questions seem moot.

A bit off topic but if you’ve never read this book I’d highly recommend it. It’s not one I would have picked out on a whim but a friend recommended it to me. https://www.amazon.com/Burning-Bed-Faith-McNulty/dp/015114981X

[Maude]

@BigMama1

It sounds she asked for what, exactly? These are the comments I don’t understand. Obviously she didn’t ask to be shot. Ask to be evicted? Ask to be beaten, as somebody upthread suggested? Maybe MB was “asking for it” and that’s why she started all the BSC behaviour. We don’t have nearly enough info about who did what to whom and why, and who (if anyone) was “asking for it.”

I knew this comment would trigger someone…🙄

[Windermere]

Seriously, y’all. I’ve read all of this thread along the way and there’s some intense victim blaming going on. Why is all the focus on what LK might have done to provoke MB, and no one is raising the question of what prompted their relationship to sour so quickly, and what caused her to be making such pointed social media posts? That entire framing - “what did she do?” - is suspect, and one has to question why it is the dominant narrative and not the other way around. That’s the victim blaming.

That being said, calling ICE on folks is ghastly and there is no justification for such a thing in my eyes. And if a false allegation was made to CPS, it also disgusts me.

When I think about this issue, it sounds like it stems from a conflict regarding money and housing – which, are too often the root causes of a lot of violence that happens in society. I don’t want to wade into the specifics of this when so many of the details are not known, but I have to assume (from the broad strokes of the situation) that the individuals were driven to make some of the choices they did by those financial stressors, until the situation escalated into personal disputes that finally culminated in physical violence.

Had those material pressures not been felt in the first place, would this situation have ended with a man in jail and a woman in the hospital? My instinct is no.

[TMares]

@Windermere

Seriously, y’all. I’ve read all of this thread along the way and there’s some intense victim blaming going on. Why is all the focus on what LK might have done to provoke MB, and no one is raising the question of what prompted their relationship to sour so quickly, and what caused her to be making such pointed social media posts? That entire framing - “what did she do?” - is suspect, and one has to question why it is the dominant narrative and not the other way around. That’s the victim blaming.

That being said, calling ICE on folks is ghastly and there is no justification for such a thing in my eyes. And if a false allegation was made to CPS, it also disgusts me.

When I think about this issue, it sounds like it stems from a conflict regarding money and housing – which, are too often the root causes of a lot of violence that happens in society. I don’t want to wade into the specifics of this when so many of the details are not known, but I have to assume (from the broad strokes of the situation) that the individuals were driven to make some of the choices they did by those financial stressors, until the situation escalated into personal disputes that finally culminated in physical violence.

Had those material pressures not been felt in the first place, would this situation have ended with a man in jail and a woman in the hospital? My instinct is no.

I’m just going to blame the farrier if we’re going to blame “material pressures.”

[Sticky_Situation]

@Windermere

Seriously, y’all. I’ve read all of this thread along the way and there’s some intense victim blaming going on. Why is all the focus on what LK might have done to provoke MB, and no one is raising the question of what prompted their relationship to sour so quickly, and what caused her to be making such pointed social media posts? That entire framing - “what did she do?” - is suspect, and one has to question why it is the dominant narrative and not the other way around. That’s the victim blaming.

That’s just it, though. This isn’t a situation like the “I stand with George” BS where people can’t possibly imagine their hero having done something awful. The focus on LK isn’t because she’s a woman, or because a successful male dressage trainer couldn’t possibly commit a crime against another human … it’s because LK has put herself out there publicly as someone who engages in baiting, drama-mongering, and making threats, whereas MB has not. Which is not to say definitively that he didn’t engage in any of those things, but if he did so, he didn’t put it out there for public consumption.

So based on behavior patterns, I have some doubt that LK was quietly minding her own business, drinking a wholesome glass of milk and studying the Bible when MB showed up and shot her out of the blue. That does NOT mean she “deserved” to be shot, or that it is “her fault” she was shot; however, her actions do appear to have contributed to the further escalation of the dispute.

Calling ICE on farm workers because you want to ‘ruin’ their boss? Gross.

[Trakehners_Arabs]

I am an outsider looking in. I read a lot in the COTH forums, but have never made an account. To the outsider, there does feel like a lot of victim blaming. I have seen people worried about how good his lawyer is, hoping that people come forward as witnesses to her poor character, complaining about the judge, a lot of speculation. I was really disheartened by people looking up LK’s scores and rides ( Mary Haskins congratulated her on her Bronze this summer, and she posted some scores towards her Silver, so I find it believable. Sometimes posting scores lags). I understand the psychology behind some of it; basically argue that the victim controlled her fate to some extent so you can comfort yourself that you will never end up in such a situation.

At at the end of the day, we don’t know much. We know that MB so far is not claiming self-defense (that definitely would’ve come up). He’s claiming harassment. We know he was temporarily suspended by SafeSport in Sept 2018 for misconduct, but removed. I haven’t seen anything from his ex wife or his current gf saying this is completely out of character. I don’t think the gf came to the bail hearing. I actually am going to post a screenshot from one of his friends pages, where the person says they are surprised the ex got away without violence. (Edit, keeps saying invalid file? It’s just a FB screenshot). Fundamentally, we don’t know, and the speculation, at least to outsiders, looks bad. I am now seeing a lot of posts saying people are misinterpreting; but I just wanted to say is disheartening to people who have used COTH to try and understand situations better. I really gained respect for the forum with the Rob Gage discussion; at times this one has really turned me off.

[Joanne]

“(Edit, keeps saying invalid file? It’s just a FB screenshot).”

It has to be a JPEG. Export the screenshot to a JPEG format and it should upload. It has nothing to do with the content.

[Trakehners_Arabs]

I’m struggling with the jpeg. It’s currently the 4th post down on Nancy Barnes-Wachendorf’s page, from Aug 9th. The comments about violence are by Sal Robert Salvetti, and read “Nancy, you know how close I was once to everything there. I’m sorry, this makes me physically ill to say this, but I’m not shocked. We’ve all seen the temper, erratic, irrational, behavior. Honestly this could’ve been any of us who were that close.“ and “ I’m also grateful Vera got out alive.” And who knows, this person could have their own reasons for posting like that. So much hearsay going on.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

Lawyer here - reminding again that it’s definitely not too late for things like a self-defense issue to be raised by his lawyer’s. If they expect this to go to trial, then it’s probably too soon for defense theories to be raised publicly.

The victim blaming is pretty consistent with our instincts in crime generally - as mentioned above, psychologically we want to believe the world is fair, and that bad things only happen to bad people/ we won’t suffer if we’re prepared. I should add, it’s not like an imperfect victim is not still a victim. Many victims of crimes are themselves criminals - that doesn’t change the fact that what happened to them was wrong/ illegal/ worthy of prosecution.