Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[Trakehners_Arabs]

@the sandiest shoes

Lawyer here - reminding again that it’s definitely not too late for things like a self-defense issue to be raised by his lawyer’s. If they expect this to go to trial, then it’s probably too soon for defense theories to be raised publicly.

The victim blaming is pretty consistent with our instincts in crime generally - as mentioned above, psychologically we want to believe the world is fair, and that bad things only happen to bad people/ we won’t suffer if we’re prepared. I should add, it’s not like an imperfect victim is not still a victim. Many victims of crimes are themselves criminals - that doesn’t change the fact that what happened to them was wrong/ illegal/ worthy of prosecution.

Sorry, I wasn’t very clear; I didn’t mean that they won’t ever claim self-defense. I meant I would’ve assumed had he wrestled a gun away from her, they would have brought it up at the bail hearing, or corrected the judge when he stated there was no evidence either LK or RG attacked MB prior to the shooting. That would make sense to me as a way to be let out on bail prior to the trial, but I am definitely not a lawyer. Thanks for your clarification:)

[Angela_Freda]

@Trakehners&Arabs

Sorry, I wasn’t very clear; I didn’t mean that they won’t ever claim self-defense. I meant I would’ve assumed had he wrestled a gun away from her, they would have brought it up at the bail hearing, or corrected the judge when he stated there was no evidence either LK or RG attacked MB prior to the shooting. That would make sense to me as a way to be let out on bail prior to the trial, but I am definitely not a lawyer. Thanks for your clarification:)

Someone earlier on this thread explained it was not a hearing where you do that kind of plea or presentation of a defense or extenuating circumstances.

[Palm_Beach]

@the sandiest shoes

Lawyer here - reminding again that it’s definitely not too late for things like a self-defense issue to be raised by his lawyer’s. If they expect this to go to trial, then it’s probably too soon for defense theories to be raised publicly.

The victim blaming is pretty consistent with our instincts in crime generally - as mentioned above, psychologically we want to believe the world is fair, and that bad things only happen to bad people/ we won’t suffer if we’re prepared. I should add, it’s not like an imperfect victim is not still a victim. Many victims of crimes are themselves criminals - that doesn’t change the fact that what happened to them was wrong/ illegal/ worthy of prosecution.

Thank you. Now sarcasm - Because you know, a real man wouldn’t be caught dead with a pink gun. So it had to be hers.

[farmpony84]

@TMares

I’m just going to blame the farrier if we’re going to blame “material pressures.”

Why does it always have to be the farrier?!:eek:

[Graymaresrule]

So, I decide to dart between parked cars and run into traffic and get flattened. Did I deserve to get flattened? NO. Did my actions cause me to get flattened? Yup. Is the driver of the car responsible? Well maybe he shoulda…

[Trakehners_Arabs]

@Angela Freda

Someone earlier on this thread explained it was not a hearing where you do that kind of plea or presentation of a defense or extenuating circumstances.

I guess I am confused why his lawyer would claim he was harassed, trying to evict, etc, but not say that his client took the gun away from her if he did so…I understand this isn’t the hearing to present everything, but if you are presenting those aspects, wouldn’t that be the thing most likely to get bail? And wouldn’t you still correct the judge when he makes the statement that they (LK and RG) did not attack first? I am not a lawyer, I’ve been an expert witness, but I feel like you wouldn’t just sit back and let the judge make a statement like that if it wasn’t true. Hopefully one of the lawyers can weigh in on that.

[Angela_Freda]

@Trakehners&Arabs

I guess I am confused why his lawyer would claim he was harassed, trying to evict, etc, but not say that his client took the gun away from her if he did so…I understand this isn’t the hearing to present everything, but if you are presenting those aspects, wouldn’t that be the thing most likely to get bail? And wouldn’t you still correct the judge when he makes the statement that they (LK and RG) did not attack first? I am not a lawyer, I’ve been an expert witness, but I feel like you wouldn’t just sit back and let the judge make a statement like that if it wasn’t true. Hopefully one of the lawyers can weigh in on that.

I believe now in NJ their is no bail. I may be misunderstanding, but this hearing wasn’t about that… read back to see what the person who explained it said.

[TMares]

@farmpony84

Why does it always have to be the farrier?!:eek:

It’s just the way of the world, he asked for it

All y’all remember the white dude who shot a black dude a year ago at a convenience store in Florida? A year ago?? That case is just now going to trial. This is not a lifetime movie. It’s gonna be a minute.

[BigMama1]

@Maude

I knew this comment would trigger someone…🙄

I’m not “triggered” but honestly wondering what you meant by “asking for it.” If you mean asking to be kicked off the farm and out of the house and possibly blackballed in the industry - sure, I get that. Asking to be attacked? I don’t think so. So what did you mean?

[BigMama1]

@Trakehners&Arabs

I am an outsider looking in. I read a lot in the COTH forums, but have never made an account. To the outsider, there does feel like a lot of victim blaming. I have seen people worried about how good his lawyer is, hoping that people come forward as witnesses to her poor character, complaining about the judge, a lot of speculation. I was really disheartened by people looking up LK’s scores and rides ( Mary Haskins congratulated her on her Bronze this summer, and she posted some scores towards her Silver, so I find it believable. Sometimes posting scores lags). I understand the psychology behind some of it; basically argue that the victim controlled her fate to some extent so you can comfort yourself that you will never end up in such a situation.

At at the end of the day, we don’t know much. We know that MB so far is not claiming self-defense (that definitely would’ve come up). He’s claiming harassment. We know he was temporarily suspended by SafeSport in Sept 2018 for misconduct, but removed. I haven’t seen anything from his ex wife or his current gf saying this is completely out of character. I don’t think the gf came to the bail hearing. I actually am going to post a screenshot from one of his friends pages, where the person says they are surprised the ex got away without violence. (Edit, keeps saying invalid file? It’s just a FB screenshot). Fundamentally, we don’t know, and the speculation, at least to outsiders, looks bad. I am now seeing a lot of posts saying people are misinterpreting; but I just wanted to say is disheartening to people who have used COTH to try and understand situations better. I really gained respect for the forum with the Rob Gage discussion; at times this one has really turned me off.

I agree. There have been enough rumours of alcohol and anger issues with MB, and LK’s own posts complaining of bullying and harassment from him, but they have been almost completely overshadowed by a focus on her history and her behaviour. Perhaps it’s simply that people are more sympathetic to him because it seems he was well liked and she wasn’t, I don’t know. But I agree that it does come across as victim blaming. I feel sorry for them both.

[TMares]

@BigMama1

I’m not “triggered” but honestly wondering what you meant by “asking for it.” If you mean asking to be kicked off the farm and out of the house and possibly blackballed in the industry - sure, I get that. Asking to be attacked? I don’t think so. So what did you mean?

So some kid, Joey, torments another kid on the playground, Eddie. Taunting, picking at him, poking at him, jeering at him. Day after day, week after week. Joey is relentless. Appeals to the teacher by Eddie don’t help. Joey even accuses Eddie of stealing, of harassing girls. Of lking other boys maybe. Being a mommas boy.

Are you surprised when Eddie finally reacts in a way that tries to cause physical harm to Joey? Did it really “come out of nowhere?”

[BigMama1]

@Graymaresrule

So, I decide to dart between parked cars and run into traffic and get flattened. Did I deserve to get flattened? NO. Did my actions cause me to get flattened? Yup. Is the driver of the car responsible? Well maybe he shoulda…

If you run out into the street between parked cars, it’s reasonable to predict that you might get hit by a car as a result. If you behave like the world’s worst customer , it’s still not reasonable to predict that you might get shot as a result, at least not in most developed countries.

[BigMama1]

@TMares

So some kid, Joey, torments another kid on the playground, Eddie. Taunting, picking at him, poking at him, jeering at him. Day after day, week after week. Joey is relentless. Appeals to the teacher by Eddie don’t help. Joey even accuses Eddie of stealing, of harassing girls. Of lking other boys maybe. Being a mommas boy.

Are you surprised when Eddie finally reacts in a way that tries to cause physical harm to Joey? Did it really “come out of nowhere?”

I guess it depends what, if anything, Eddie had done to Joey first. Maybe Eddie was stealing Joey’s lunch every day for a year before Eddie starting bullying him. That’s exactly my point. So many people are assuming LK is the Joey in your story, harassing and tormenting poor MB for no reason until he pushed back - by shooting her. And maybe that’s exactly what hapoened. Or maybe he was bullying and tormenting her and she pushed back by calling ICE and Children’s Services. We. Don’t. Know.

[hut-ho78]

I think her behavior would lead to being evicted. Why he did not do so or she did not leave is a complete mystery. Our barn owner is ruthless about barn drama. It is not tolerated past a certain point. It’s wonderful. There has been not only victim shaming but trash talking him about alcohol or other. It’s not like someone posted and said they knew because they were there and saw. It’s gossip. Just ease off a bit. Yes, there are families involved who are innocent and this is really difficult for them. I had a relative do something awful a very very long time ago before the internet thankfully and make headlines. It was horrible for his kids and wife. I didn’t know him well but my mom did and my parents were so upset.

[TMares]

@BigMama1

I guess it depends what, if anything, Eddie had done to Joey first. Maybe Eddie was stealing Joey’s lunch every day for a year before Eddie starting bullying him. That’s exactly my point. So many people are assuming LK is the Joey in your story, harassing and tormenting poor MB for no reason until he pushed back - by shooting her. And maybe that’s exactly what hapoened. Or maybe he was bullying and tormenting her and she pushed back by calling ICE and Children’s Services. We. Don’t. Know.

And we won’t know until it gets tried. So there’s that…

[Knights_Mom]

@Mardi

Question for the legal eagles on this thread: can you get a restraining order against a tenant living on your property ?

Yes you can. But they are just pieces of paper that don’t stop bullets.

[mishmash]

@merrygoround

Again I say unto you,

the only version of events was that mouthed by RG, LK’s boyfriend, fiancee, employee, whatever. It has been said her DNA was on the gun. Hmmmm! No word on gun’s ownership? No comment on the ammo. No comment on any extra ammo. I imagine most gun owners have more bullets than those already in the gun.

Just some known facts?

Am pretty sure the police and prosecutor have the answers to all these questions. Forensics, fingerprints, witness statements, social media. Perhaps security cameras. And MB still charged with attempted murder.

[Knights_Mom]

@2centsworth

Only is there is a lease does this apply. If there is no contract, or lease, then she is not a tenant pese, and has no right to expect a certain type of accommodation. As a housing professional, I deal with squatters all the time. Often friends of former tenants, that stay when the tenant moves. In those cases I have no obligations to provide any type of housing, safe or otherwise, as the house is “vacant.”

Wrong it ALWAYS APPLIES. As long as someone has lived in a premises in excess of 30 days it applies and it’s called an ILLEGAL LOCKOUT in my jurisdiction. I know because I have personally filed these papers for someone after the judge having specifically spoken to me about it.

I had originally filed HP papers stating housing code violations for not having a door.

Since the initial incident it’s happened a few more times with various people.

BTW turning off heat, power or hot water is still seen as housing violations.

[clanter]

@mishmash

. Perhaps security cameras. And MB still charged with attempted murder.

well, they still can get it wrong, my son was charged with robbery… we jumped through a few flaming hoops but ended in court…we went for trial by judge who clearly became upset with the prosecutor … as the video evidence showed a 5ft 2 person of a completely different race… my son is 6ft 1

Even after the charges were dismissed the county wanted $2,000 to expunge my son’s “record” … we sent him to school away from here.

[erinmeri]

@Trakehners&Arabs

I am an outsider looking in. I read a lot in the COTH forums, but have never made an account. To the outsider, there does feel like a lot of victim blaming. I have seen people worried about how good his lawyer is, hoping that people come forward as witnesses to her poor character, complaining about the judge, a lot of speculation. I was really disheartened by people looking up LK’s scores and rides ( Mary Haskins congratulated her on her Bronze this summer, and she posted some scores towards her Silver, so I find it believable. Sometimes posting scores lags). I understand the psychology behind some of it; basically argue that the victim controlled her fate to some extent so you can comfort yourself that you will never end up in such a situation.

At at the end of the day, we don’t know much. We know that MB so far is not claiming self-defense (that definitely would’ve come up). He’s claiming harassment. We know he was temporarily suspended by SafeSport in Sept 2018 for misconduct, but removed. I haven’t seen anything from his ex wife or his current gf saying this is completely out of character. I don’t think the gf came to the bail hearing. I actually am going to post a screenshot from one of his friends pages, where the person says they are surprised the ex got away without violence. (Edit, keeps saying invalid file? It’s just a FB screenshot). Fundamentally, we don’t know, and the speculation, at least to outsiders, looks bad. I am now seeing a lot of posts saying people are misinterpreting; but I just wanted to say is disheartening to people who have used COTH to try and understand situations better. I really gained respect for the forum with the Rob Gage discussion; at times this one has really turned me off.

This. There is an awful lot of speculation about the things she posted online that went poof. I didn’t read all of them, but I read enough. Yes, they sounded a bit unhinged… but who amongst us knows that she wasn’t pushed? How do you know you wouldn’t sound a bit unhinged if your life was, as she alleged, threatened? You don’t. And we don’t. Just because he didn’t “air his laundry” in public doesn’t mean that there wasn’t laundry to air. We. Simply. Don’t. Know.

It is all speculation. We don’t know anything other than people behaved badly, and there was a tragic outcome. We don’t know the chicken from the egg.

Saying she “asked for it”, as several here have done (or implied) is totally beyond the pale. It is akin to saying that women who dress provocatively or have sex lives ask to be raped. You can extrapolate this argument any number of ways, but at the end of the day you are 1) speculating, and 2) dehumanizing victims. It’s just gross.

ETA: It should go without saying that one’s past behavior - however abhorrent - doesn’t necessarily mean that one caused his or her’s current situation. I am not saying she is an innocent flower, I am saying that we don’t know what happened.