Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[Angela_Freda]

@mvp

This kind of argument and the other proposed analogy, (girl in a miniskirt causing her own rape) are both poor. They are not bad analogies here for the same reason, of course.

The more apropos one for this case is that of unrelenting bullying. Look, if someone wanted to defend a game of endless “tit for tat” between two pieces of work, Barisone and his client, that’s one thing. But what I don’t think anyone can defend is the escalation to shooting someone with the intent to kill.

Or did you actually mean, TBMares, that the escalation of the victim’s retort was justified? I see that as OK-ing a bit of an arms race of violence.

I’m not sure anyone, truly, defends the “escalation to shooting with the intent to kill”. But this digression has been hashed and rehashed, and people will, apparently, believe what they choose of others words, even when those words, and the nuanced meaning behind them, have been explained to death repeatedly.

[BunnyHugger]

@mydogs

I think this so important to remember. I know people who were close to the situation and from what I understand, there is so much more to the story that I have not seen posted online. Those who were there are having a very hard time with the situation in itself, much less dealing with the drama from online comments. Some of them have commented about how cruel the internet has been and how upsetting it is to read the comments because the internet doesn’t know the entire story. These are people who rarely post on social media even when things are going great with their lives, so I highly doubt they will be providing their current thoughts on the situation online.

@mydogs, since you know people close to the source, have you heard how she’s doing?

[TMares]

@Angela Freda

I’m not sure anyone, truly, defends the “escalation to shooting with the intent to kill”. But this digression has been hashed and rehashed, and people will, apparently, believe what they choose of others words, even when those words, and the nuanced meaning behind them, have been explained to death repeatedly.

DING DING DING DING.

[mydogs]

@BunnyHugger

@mydogs, since you know people close to the source, have you heard how she’s doing?

I have not heard about her status. I have been busy for the last week so I haven’t been around to hear. But I also don’t bring it up either, in an effort to give everyone space.

[mydogs]

@BunnyHugger

@mydogs, since you know people close to the source, have you heard how she’s doing?

Sorry, I have not heard. I’ve been busy with work for the last week so I haven’t been around much.

[MHM]

@farmpony84

Why does it always have to be the farrier?!:eek:

Have you ever met a farrier? :lol:

[mvp]

@Angela Freda

I’m not sure anyone, truly, defends the “escalation to shooting with the intent to kill”. But this digression has been hashed and rehashed, and people will, apparently, believe what they choose of others words, even when those words, and the nuanced meaning behind them, have been explained to death repeatedly.

If so, they need to choose better analogies. Both of these seemed so obviously unhelpful that I didn’t see how and why they were being offered some 67 pages into a discussion. That’s why I spoke up.

[MHM]

@TMares

Uh oh, not the maths!

Ditto.

[caffeinated]

@Ruth0552

So… just read an article saying she reported him to safesport and Child protective services because he’s abusing his OWN 2 kids that live there. Didn’t say what kind of abuse. I think it was horse nation.

They were his girlfriend’s (fiancee?) children, not his.

That said - given the things she was posting, given that law enforcement and FD had been getting called out all week - if she was so afraid for herself or her horses, I still can’t wrap my head around making that call before getting the hell off the property. You have to be very naïve or stupid, not sure which, to think that anyone would take a CPS visit, in this toxic environment, as anything but a direct threat.

This is why I can’t shake my fascination with the whole thing - everybody involved just made monumentally bad decisions from start to finish (culminating with the worst possible thing a person could do, not excusing him here, which I feel like I have to point out every time I post now). Like every time a choice presented itself on the “what to do” front, each of them did the exact opposite thing they should have. It’s like watching two hurricanes crash into each other.

[Sparrowette]

I started wondering about NJ law, and found this:

https://www.njcriminallawfirms.com/blog/self-defense-murder-manslaughter-guide-nj-law/

“Murder and Manslaughter

If your actions don’t fall under the protections of self-defense laws, you can be charged with manslaughter or even murder. The major difference between the two charges is intent. When a person knowingly and purposefully kills another person or causes substantial bodily harm that the person later dies due to the injuries that were inflicted, that is murder. Manslaughter is defined as causing the death of someone else through reckless conduct. An important part of the NJ manslaughter law has to do with “heat of passion” killings with provocation. The facts of the case can complicate this “heat of passion” manslaughter charge with a legitimate self-defense case. Once again, it’s so important to contact a criminal defense attorney who knows the law.”

[hut-ho78]

@MeisterMagnolia

For the record, post 1253 put their own “spin” on what people were saying to fit their own narrative. Your final % is inaccurate and overstated.

Nah. I just used the most flagrant. I left out the posts where people actually knew her and the snotty ones about him.

[TMares]

@mvp

If so, they need to choose better analogies. Both of these seemed so obviously unhelpful that I didn’t see how and why they were being offered some 67 pages into a discussion. That’s why I spoke up.

Because some can’t imagine that LK in any way was perhaps, just maybe, possibly, just maybe, in some way engaged in inciting mess, fomenting the resulting violence. The idea that LK could MAYBE POSSIBLY have started the mayhem and madness a while ago, the terrible result of which finds her shot by her horse trainer and landlord, well it’s just not POSSIBLE.

I don’t think she deserved to get shot. I do think that when I myself hear hoofbeats, I know that I don’t start looking for zebras, because it’s POSSIBLE that my horses got out. I mean, it’s POSSIBLE.

[ToN_Farm]

Heat of passion killings bother me because it shows a person has no control of their emotions. What’s to stop them from killing again the next time somebody pushes their buttons too hard.

[Palm_Beach]

@TMares

Because some can’t imagine that LK in any way was perhaps, just maybe, possibly, just maybe, in some way engaged in inciting mess, fomenting the resulting violence. The idea that LK could MAYBE POSSIBLY have started the mayhem and madness a while ago, the terrible result of which finds her shot by her horse trainer and landlord, well it’s just not POSSIBLE.

I don’t think she deserved to get shot. I do think that when I myself hear hoofbeats, I know that I don’t start looking for zebras, because it’s POSSIBLE that my horses got out. I mean, it’s POSSIBLE.

So adding onto your ideas, there is also the “Stand Your Ground” defense that is currently unfolding in FL regarding a parking lot shooting. Kind of backwards in that the shooter is fruitbat nuts (IMHO), and with Barisone, we have a tenant who was maybe acting poorly.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/19/752365033/stand-your-ground-trial-begins-in-florida-a-year-after-unarmed-black-man-is-kill

[hut-ho78]

This thread explains gun violence. Instead of holding people to their own actions it’s a dive into victimhood. He wouldn’t have done it if she wasn’t picking on him. She wouldn’t have picked on him if he hadn’t started it. All behaviors are bad but he fired the shots. Every mass shooter or even single shooter always claim victimhood even if they were shooting strangers. Making excuses for his behavior or hers often dives into victim shaming.

Sorry about the math. 4.43% still isn’t much and shows over 95% are not victim shaming so yea!

No no matter how annoying a post, I don’t see any escalating into the situation being discussed. Most of the posts are thoughtful and troubled. Someone earlier said we are repeatedly going over all behaviors trying to find a rational explanation for either’s behavior and we can’t because all behavior was irrational. I think that person is right. So thank you to the about 95.17% for your thoughtful comments.

[miss_machine]

@Aspen8489

What are you talking about? MB is not out on bail, his release was denied. That was another posters story as an example, reading through the thread and not making stuff up would help a lot

I did not intentionally spread “false information,” hence the question. But I’m sure all of your unfounded assumptions are important. Jesus, lighten up.

[Sticky_Situation]

I am not making excuses for MB’s actions, and unless a whole lot of additional information comes out showing him to be acting in self defense, I think he should go to jail for a long time.

But because I do believe in personal responsibility for your own actions … I find it hard to ignore the reality that if a person chooses to make threats, incite drama, and make false claims in an effort to get their way, it increases the likelihood that someone will eventually retaliate.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

@Aspen8489

Not yet , dusting off my calculus books,

not so fast we haven’t gotten a spreadsheet yet

No worries, I got you.

=SUMIFS(Assumptions=24,Speculations=98,FACT=0)

I might’ve done that wrong. Heading to lunch…

[mvp]

@TMares

Because some can’t imagine that LK in any way was perhaps, just maybe, possibly, just maybe, in some way engaged in inciting mess, fomenting the resulting violence. The idea that LK could MAYBE POSSIBLY have started the mayhem and madness a while ago, the terrible result of which finds her shot by her horse trainer and landlord, well it’s just not POSSIBLE.

I don’t think she deserved to get shot. I do think that when I myself hear hoofbeats, I know that I don’t start looking for zebras, because it’s POSSIBLE that my horses got out. I mean, it’s POSSIBLE.

You still don’t pick the right analogy. What makes LK having anything to do with getting shot “POSSIBLE” in the sense you mean has to do with agreeing that escalation is Ok. If it’s categorically, not, then there is no sense in which she should have died for what she did. And “should” has two meanings-- 1. “ought”-- she did not deserve to die; 2. “predictability”-- any reasonable person or the laws of physics would have been able to predict that she’s die. But again, re-read my post making the distinction in your bullying analogy about an on-going fight that sucks because it continues at the same level versus escalation.

LK having something to do with bringing on violence toward her does not have the sense of being possibly true in the way one can mistake the sound of horses for zebras…unless you mean to go back to the “she was wearing a mini-skirt and so she asked for it” analogy. What you mean with looking for your horses at the sound of hoofbeats as opposed to imagining zebras has to do with explanatory parsimony AKA Occam’s razor. In your neck of the woods, the more usual equid is a horse, so that’s where you’d start when choosing among all possible explanations.

If you mean to imply that any violence that happens to a person is caused by them (or deserved) because that’s the most parsimonious answer, then I think you are victim-blaming. And really, I think most of the data anyone on this thread has which makes them think that LK played a significant role in causing her own shooting has to do with her public criminal record and an FB page that’s more messy than Barisone’s. I’m not sure that’s enough data to peg her as the instigator to such a degree that it’s most parsimonious to hang all this on her.

[TMares]

TLDR. In the words of Elsa, let it goooooooo. I promise not to quit my day job and launch a career in analogies.