Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[Angela_Freda]

@netg

And once again, the “it’s her fault” implication others are trying to deny exists in this thread.

In sentencing, “mitigating circumstances” could reduce his sentence if the judge believes his decision-making was affected by her behavior. If the trial allows her to be painted in the same way many on this thread have, as a trouble maker who is lucky to be alive, not a victim who was nearly killed, a jury of MB’s peers could find him not guilty as they are swayed by emotion. According to the law, though, and based on what we know - he is clearly guilty of trying to kill her, and one could say his anger and behavior showed premeditation if they were a prosecutor trying to put him away as long as possible.

Am I reading completely different news articles than you?
I’m not sure anyone knows this, any of this.

[Scribbler]

@x-halt-salute

Wow. Justice must be a lot more blind in Canada than here in the U.S.

I don’t want to get too political, but when you’re talking about practice (vs. “in theory”), the assumptions people make about the innocence of the victim can indeed have a lot to do with how likely it is that someone will be arrested, tried, and convicted for a crime like murder. Identifying these biases was a huge part of the jury selection process for the murder trial I was in the jury pool for a few years ago, and it’s not that difficult to find examples in the news where assumptions about victims and/or the relative character of accused and victim(s) seemed to have factored into both arrests and convictions for crimes like murder/attempted murder.

In theory, the character of the victim is not relevant to the guilt of the accused (at least usually – character of the victim is admissible in some circumstances I believe). But in practice I believe it quite often impacts how justice is carried out, for a far wider swath of violent crimes than just rape.

Well we do have far fewer gun deaths in Canada than in the US, far fewer murders overall, so that may affect how people think about them.

[x-halt-salute]

@Scribbler

Well we do have far fewer gun deaths in Canada than in the US, far fewer murders overall, so that may affect how people think about them.

I don’t think number of gun deaths is the key explanatory variable in any more or less impartial administration of justice. Let’s just say that a pretty white lady whose social media is a veritable guano cave, but who doesn’t have priors for dealing any drugs that can’t be easily bought on the average college campus wouldn’t be subject to the kinds of victim character judgment that the attorneys seemed worried about in the jury selection I participated in, regardless of whether the crime in question were gun-related or not…

I’m any case, I suspect Canadian juries are probably not actually any better than US juries at considering facts without letting assumptions about victims’ character color their conclusions. Justice in most places is more myopic than blind, IMO.

[clanter]

@x-halt-salute

I’m any case, I suspect Canadian juries are probably not actually any better than US juries at considering facts without letting assumptions about victims’ character color their conclusions. Justice in most places is more myopic than blind, IMO.

since asked, it appears Canadian justice is in a completely different universe

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38945061

[FlaxenChestnut]

@Scribbler

As far as the character of the victim, most of the shooting victims around here are long term medium and higher level gangsters caught up in turf wars and vendettas. Quite often the victim is someone who already faced weapons charges. No one for a minute thinks they sre “innocent victims.”

But hey, guess what? If you shoot one of these gangsters you get arrested for murder (if they can catch and identify you). Even as the police do their obligatory hey kids, this is the fruits of a criminal lifestyle, they are out there finding the murderers.

Just as a brief aside, since gang activity and violence pose such a huge public safety risk, there is extra incentive for law enforcement to charge and seek the maximum sentencing for gang members that murder (or attempt to murder) other gang members. It’s not just about justice for the victim in those cases, it’s about getting high-risk offenders off the streets.

[Dee-Vee]

@x-halt-salute

Wow. Justice must be a lot more blind in Canada than here in the U.S.

I don’t want to get too political, but when you’re talking about practice (vs. “in theory”), the assumptions people make about the innocence of the victim can indeed have a lot to do with how likely it is that someone will be arrested, tried, and convicted for a crime like murder. Identifying these biases was a huge part of the jury selection process for the murder trial I was in the jury pool for a few years ago, and it’s not that difficult to find examples in the news where assumptions about victims and/or the relative character of accused and victim(s) seemed to have factored into both arrests and convictions for crimes like murder/attempted murder.

In theory, the character of the victim is not relevant to the guilt of the accused (at least usually – character of the victim is admissible in some circumstances I believe). But in practice I believe it quite often impacts how justice is carried out, for a far wider swath of violent crimes than just rape.

The justice system in Canada is based on facts and the application of the law, not assumptions.

Just an aside, I struggle with your logic in the above, so that is all I have to say.

[MeisterMagnolia]

@BigMama1

SW and LK are two peas in a pod.

I finally took a look at the Dressage Hub “ringmaster” page on Facebook. Questions: 1. Does anyone know if this business page has a lot of children following and/or reading it? 2. Are those sponsors that appear on the banner at the top?

A personal aside: I cannot believe the invective and hatred being spewed by this person; yes, it is not unlike LKs social media. Wouldn’t those sponsors like to know what they’ve associated themselves with?

[Scribbler]

I don’t think DH has sponsors anymore. But all social media is monetized, and the ads you see are generated by the platform. For instance when I read COTH I get ads that are local to me and have no relation to horses.

The ads generated by the platform are probably tailored to you. I expect there is a small percentage fee to the FB or YouTube site operator based on number of views. I would imagine that if the page or group hasn’t been cancelled by FB then the algorithm doesn’t discriminate between good and bad sites.

I don’t think FB will cancel a page or group based just on generalized interpersonal nastiness.

[Scribbler]

@x-halt-salute

I don’t think number of gun deaths is the key explanatory variable in any more or less impartial administration of justice. Let’s just say that a pretty white lady whose social media is a veritable guano cave, but who doesn’t have priors for dealing any drugs that can’t be easily bought on the average college campus wouldn’t be subject to the kinds of victim character judgment that the attorneys seemed worried about in the jury selection I participated in, regardless of whether the crime in question were gun-related or not…

I’m any case, I suspect Canadian juries are probably not actually any better than US juries at considering facts without letting assumptions about victims’ character color their conclusions. Justice in most places is more myopic than blind, IMO.

I realize there are statistically verifiable biases in legal outcomes linked to race and social class, in both the USA and Canada. But since those factors aren’t at play in this case, I didn’t want to go down that rabbit hole.

[x-halt-salute]

@Scribbler

I realize there are statistically verifiable biases in legal outcomes linked to race and social class, in both the USA and Canada. But since those factors aren’t at play in this case, I didn’t want to go down that rabbit hole.

I apologize for turning the conversation in this direction – I should have tagged my mention of the Canadian justice system with /s so it would be obvious to my friends up north that I’m cynical about both US and Canadian justice upholding the ideals illustrated by your post for violent crimes other than rape, and not interested in some sort of comparative justice exercise.

I agree that it’s not worth going down that rabbit hole… my point was that the whole ‘gang crime gets investigated and proscuted, therefore the character of the victim is not on trial in an attempted murder case’ argument really doesn’t hold up. It very often is, in practice.

And while it may not be as starkly obvious how the victim’s character could impact the outcome of this case as when the victim is the wrong race, wearing the wrong clothes, in the wrong part of town, I do think that if this goes before a jury, it very well could matter whether those humans think of LK as an award winning equestrian with incredible promise, or a manipulative wannabe with a history of criminal behavior. I suspect the perceived character of the victim could even be crucial to whether this case goes before a jury.

If I were the prosecutor on this case, every salacious post the victim puts on social media would elicit a headdesk from me.

[furlong47]

@Scribbler

I don’t think DH has sponsors anymore. But all social media is monetized, and the ads you see are generated by the platform. For instance when I read COTH I get ads that are local to me and have no relation to horses.

The ads generated by the platform are probably tailored to you. I expect there is a small percentage fee to the FB or YouTube site operator based on number of views. I would imagine that if the page or group hasn’t been cancelled by FB then the algorithm doesn’t discriminate between good and bad sites.

I don’t think FB will cancel a page or group based just on generalized interpersonal nastiness.

It’s not ads on that page, it’s the profile video that would be uploaded by the page owner or moderator. It is a weird montage of photos of various tack, equipment, and riding clothes, most with brand name fairly prominent. Does give the impression of sponsorship.

[farmpony84]

She needs to be mentally evaluated. There is something really wrong with her.

(no I’m not saying it’s her fault or she deserved it).

But I’m saying she is not right in the head…

[CanteringCarrot]

Regarding that screen shot…I think her emotional stability was compromised long before she was shot - purely based on what others have said about her and her previous social media activity. But that’s just my opinion.

[MHM]

@NicoleUphoff

What to make of this? My Bunny Boiler Sense is in overload!!

Oh. My. Goodness.

[flyingchange]

@NicoleUphoff

What to make of this? My Bunny Boiler Sense is in overload!!

WOW. :eek:

[Angela_Freda]

@NicoleUphoff

What to make of this? My Bunny Boiler Sense is in overload!!

Wait, what?
agree with previous posters.

[Brown_Derby]

I say let’s leave her alone. We know better than to pick on someone with difficulties. She may indeed suffer from BP or similar. Of the three BP cases I am personally familiar with (co-worker’s spouse; friend’s 16 yo son; clerk at thrift store benefiting mentally challenged adults), the former two ended in suicides, out of no where. We may not like her but she does not merit baiting, assessment, or further attention.

[roseymare]

@Dee-Vee

The justice system in Canada is based on facts and the application of the law, not assumptions.

Just an aside, I struggle with your logic in the above, so that is all I have to say.

I think you may be misinterpreting what Xhalt is saying. I think what they mean is the jury pool is selected heavily on if who in the pool may have biases.

[MeisterMagnolia]

@CanteringCarrot

Regarding that screen shot…I think her emotional stability was compromised long before she was shot - purely based on what others have said about her and her previous social media activity. But that’s just my opinion.

In my experience, when something like what happened to her (however it happened) - like cancer, or coming out, or whatever - happens, people can be profoundly changed and often take a lot of time to reflect and regroup. She hasn’t even paused. I’m no psychiatrist, but boy, she is waaaaay off. And possibly self destructive.

[tryintogethere]

@MeisterMagnolia

In my experience, when something like what happened to her (however it happened) - like cancer, or coming out, or whatever - happens, people can be profoundly changed and often take a lot of time to reflect and regroup. She hasn’t even paused. I’m no psychiatrist, but boy, she is waaaaay off. And possibly self destructive.

If you know LK, or even read the other posts from before she was shot, you would know she has not changed!