Word to the Wise: Lesson Reminder for Everyone

[RockinHorse]

[QUOTE=Amiblue;8098130]
As a reminder to everyone, if you have been offered a free horse or pony who has been outgrown by someone’s child or grandchild, no matter the age, make sure you know who you are dealing with and realize that they have nothing to lose.

Over a month ago I posted looking for an inexpensive pony for my children to learn with and got many great responses that I put into play. Was offered many wonderful pony’s and small horses in varying prices, disciplines and sizes, but one in particular stood out to me (because of COTH). The owner and I spoke for a month through online messages, facebook, on the phone and I offered to Skype to ensure she was comfortable with me, my children, the boarding facility we board at and showed pictures of my transforming Thoroughbred. The night before we were to leave to make the 7 hour one way drive with the horse trailer, we had this conversation (I took out the names and information that would say who everyone is to be respectful of their privacy):

Wednesday 9:44pm ME
Hi! Tried to give you a call but it may be to late. I wanted to make sure everything was good for tomorrow and see if you had any questions or concerns. I also wanted to go over what we decided to do. If we would bring her back here with a contract that you have first options if ever (which you will never have to worry about as she will never leave us) if there is ever a problem or if we will do a trial for a couple of weeks before finalizing? I promise always lots of pictures and constant updates in addition to anytime visits, lol. You can ask my mares breeder! We are looking forward to meeting you tomorrow and hope we don’t look to crazy after being in the car for hours with the kids, lol!!! Thank you so much! J, B and E (my children) are very excited and made sure her stall was all ready tonight while I got the trailer hooked up. They even went to bed!!! Well, we will see you tomorrow! Will update you along the way so you will know where we are. My phone number is 000-000-0000 to just incase you need it again.

HER
Thank you so much for the mail, we are looking forward to meet your family tomorrow and will talk about everything, have a safe trip!!!

ME
We will and look forward to tomorrow as well. I want to make sure everything is good though. Mainly because my husband is doing a lot to help me get everything ready and I want him to continue to be involved and helping us.
I know that everyone is excited about getting her and if it doesn’t work out, I won’t get another chance. I want my entire family to be involved in horses.

HER
I totally understand that and I think its great that he is so supportive. About the contract, I admit that we haven’t looked into any types of contract yet, so if it is ok with you we would write one tomorrow. I would like to make firm that we will get her back if anything goes wrong… You are not allowed to sell her. Thats really my most important point. By the way, do you have my adress?

ME
Yes and thank you, that would be fine. And I can promise you she won’t go anywhere. She will not be sold or given to anyone. If there is ever a time when we can’t keep her for whatever reason, you will be the first to know.
And no, I don’t have it. That might be important

HER
could be My adress is (her address) and I guess you have my cell phone??

ME
think that is the number I have. It is the one you called me from I believe. I saved it.
Correct me if I am wrong though. Please

HER
Yes it is

ME
Good. And just so you know, my cell phone number is the same one we have had for 12 years. It is never going to change, lol.
So between Facebook and cell phone plus I can give you my email, you will always have a way to get pictures!

HER
sounds good

ME
(My email)

HER
Thank you !!

ME
Thank you. I can’t even tell you how much this means to me. It really is the greatest gift. Thank you for sharing her with us.

HER
as long as she and your family will enjoy each other, that is all we want my son will be there too… he is a little concerned that (Pony name) will leave…

ME
I can’t wait to meet him and have him meet my children. I think once he meets B (my daughter), he will probably feel better though I know he will miss her. She was his first pony. That will always be special. He will always be able to visit to and hopefully one day soon, we will be living down there to.

HER
I really hope that will work out for you. It is beautiful down here and he would like to visit her.

And that conversation went into other topics that included the fact we are looking to move to her area.

Earlier in the week I sent her this:

ME
Monday 9:00pm
Hi! We hope you had a wonderful Easter! I want to give you an update: We reserved the trailer and paid for two days so we could take our time in coming down and going back. Had the truck and trailer inspected by the mechanic to make sure everything is good to make the trip and we are cleared to go. I figured we would be, but I prefer to be safe than sorry, lol. We got her stall ready, bought extras of everything from minerals and carrots to ground flax and Triple Crown and have decided which pasture she will do the best in. My husband is working on getting time off so he can come down with us and as soon as I have the days, I will let you know. He knows it has to be this week and within a day or two. (Her request) So, everything is coming together and we are super excited. I showed my husband her videos today and my daughter was very excited telling him that (Pony name) is her pony and she is going to get to ride her and brush her and take care of her. When you meet her you will see how cute this is. Thank you very much for everything. I really hope you still like us when we get there (joking given the amount of time we communicated and how much she said we were perfect for the pony and just what she wanted for her) because everyone is on board and I don’t think I would be able to get my husband to again! This opportunity is amazing and I can’t tell you how much it is appreciated by all of us. Thank You

Her
sounds good looking forward to meet you all!!

And there is a lot more. So she knew we were coming down to pick her up. That we reserved and paid for the trailer use through the barn, paid extra for a mechanic to check truck and trailer before the trip, bought and prepared items, paid to hold a double size stall next to my mare in the barn at the first of the month so it would be ours for when she got there and not given to another boarder, took time off work because she wanted us to come before the 11th, and had gas (4.5 tanks) and food expenses for 3 children and two adults, etc. Not to mention my children having to ride for that long because they were excited to be getting their pony and I wanted her to meet everyone in my family as well as meet hers.

This is what happened. We pulled to an absolutely stunning facility and expected to meet the pony, talk for a while, do the contract and leave given we had 7 hours to drive back and would be stopping several times to check on her, give water and let the children walk around. She kept saying the contract was at the house and that her son, then her husband, then one of the two would be bringing it down. She had my children ride. We watched her son who is far to tall to be riding her any more to so my husband and children could she how she behaved. They told my Daughter this was her pony and that she was leaving with us today, but they kept stalling on bringing down the contract and kept showing me the pony’s tack that they asked if I would be interested in buying. The bridle I was as she went well in it. A few of the other items like the blankets, boots, fly hat I was considering. The saddle I wasn’t because it was 4 sizes to big. I wanted to have our saddle fitter come out and fit one properly to both the pony and my children. They refused to let us take the pony without buying everything at their price saying if we aren’t willing to buy all of her things and do it without questioning the prices then it was obvious we couldn’t afford the expense of a pony and that they didn’t feel comfortable. It was never in any agreement that we would buy all of that. We were coming for the pony. If I bought anything extra, that would have been my choice, not a requirement. Before finding out that was the only problem, I even called my mares breeder who kindly agreed to talk to her to see what was going on. It had nothing to do with us.

So we ended up leaving without the pony they told my children was theirs, had groom and ride and got them even more excited over all because they didn’t feel comfortable with us not wanting to buy a “package” deal that was never the agreement in the first place and not brought up until after we had driven all the way down there.

So here is the reminder lesson: Watch the amount of time and money you are putting into something not knowing the person you are dealing especially when they aren’t putting anything into the deal. They aren’t going to lose anything in the process, you are. And that goes double when you have children involved.

Class dismissed. :-)[/QUOTE]

Bolding mine… Perhaps after she saw the expense you were going through she started wondering why you needed a free pony rather than buying one.

(also figured the original post should be saved in case in goes poof!)

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=Clair2014;8098414]
I have no opinion on the buyer or seller and maybe this is a moot point but, in my experience, “worth his weight in gold” and free are usually mutually exclusive. If a pony is that wonderful it is usually for sale or lease and if a pony is free there’s usually something wrong (or it’s old). I would have been very leery of this situation from the beginning. I think maybe this pony was just not meant to be and really feel that if the OP wants such a wonderful pony for special needs kids, she needs to be prepared to pay for it…or find a good lease situation. That’s the only way to (hopefully) avoid situations such as the one described.[/QUOTE]

That’s what I say when things go weird with any kind of deal where you have no idea what happened.

I know I’ve repeated this story on COTH before, but I had a deal go south shortly before I purchased my current horse. I was working with an agent to find a horse under saddle and with show experience and had looked at several with this person. I put in an offer on one horse through my agent that was accepted by the seller. As we prepared to schedule the PPE within a reasonable time frame, the seller’s agent began to put stipulations on the PPE itself. My agent thought it was weird and so did I, but we tried to work it out. Eventually we decided that it was important that we use the vet we wanted, not the one that the seller’s agent told us we were supposed to use. It was just very, very odd.

anyway, two weeks later the agent found me another horse that I bought. The transaction went smoothly, and I’ve had even GHM himself ride my horse and say “this is a dream horse!” to the entire group of auditors at a clinic. Even have it on video so nobody will think I’m making this stuff up. lol. My horse has turned out to be a very nice match, so I’m glad the other deal went bad.

I took at this as the universe telling me there was something better out there. I had to go through somewhat of a painful and frustrating experience to get to something better.

So OP, maybe there is something else out there that is more suitable for you and your family.

[Clair2014]

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;8098424]
Nah, I have one of the “worth his weight in gold” ponies, who I have sent to several homes now with no expectation beyond the fact that they pamper him silly and send him back to me when he’s done being useful for them.

He was a New Holland rescue for $200, and I got him broke and started (and he’s just beginner safe by his nature), but I personally have minimal use for him and he gets bored. So I’m happy to send him out on leases, for free. He’s 12 now, but went out on his first lease when he was six, so definitely not old. 100% sound, and an easy keeper with no issues.

It sounds like this was more of a free lease situation as well, with the contract and the expectation that pony be returned…[/QUOTE]

Yes, I said they are either for sale or for lease (like in your situation). I was not under the impression that the OP was leasing this pony. She made it sound like she was being given this pony. Yes, the seller mentioned wanting the pony back if she decided not to keep him but it didn’t sound like either party was expecting to set this up like a free lease. Getting a ‘wonderful’ pony for free is what I thought was highly unlikely. Maybe the ‘catch’ in this case was her having to deal with the sellers stipulations without the structure of a true lease. Furthermore, if it was a lease she shouldn’t have had to buy the tack. Anyway, sounds like a bad deal all around. :no:

[roamingnome]

[QUOTE=Amiblue;8098235]
Yes, I was enthusiastic. I am a happy person like that and it comes through in everything that I do. Always has. She knew that and also knew we had been looking for sometime for just the right one as I have a special needs child as well who benefits greatly from riding. Nothing was withheld and we had over a month to talk on the phone, chat, be on Facebook, etc. If there were concerns, why would they continue, even after we had been there for several hours, groom and have all of my children ride her, have my daughter hose her off and brush her out again and be ready to load her into the open trailer with them continuing to tell my children she is their pony and going home with us, then say no when I didn’t feel it was a good choice to purchase a saddle that was 4 sizes to big for my children (with the idea they will grow into it) rather than have a saddle fitter fit one properly to all of them?

She is on here, which is why I trusted her more than most, and welcome her to comment of her side of the story.[/QUOTE]

Why not just take it all, saddle included? Either the kids will grow into it (they do tend to grow) or sell it/swap it with the saddle fitter afterwards? Seems silly to put all of this effort in to a free pony, only to leave sans pony.

[BeeHoney]

I think that whenever you go to look at a horse/pony, no matter the price/lease/other particulars, you 100% have to be mentally prepared that the deal isn’t done until it is done. I have no explanation of why the pony’s owners did what they did, and I’m not saying it’s right, just that sometimes even the best thought out deal falls through unexpectedly. Sometimes there’s a problem with the horse, sometimes someone gets cold feet, or another party does something to interfere with the deal. Personally, if I really wanted the pony, I probably would have bought blankets and accessories as a courtesy. I probably would have considered buying the saddle, it’s not all that hard to re-sell a saddle. Sometimes you have to be flexible at the last minute to make a deal happen.

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=rockymouse;8098395]
Am I the only one who would’ve just bought the tack if that’s what it took to get the pony?

I mean - the truck and trailer are there, the kids are excited, the boarding situation is set up…

Unless the tack was obscenely expensive, I probably would’ve handed over a check for it, even if it was too big or it was something I didn’t need. If the pony was a good fit, I’d made all the arrangements, made this big trip - I would likely eat the expense of the tack. (though of course, I wasn’t there)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think I would have just bought the stuff. Most liky you are going to need the sheets, bridle etc any way, and the saddle - sell it for a loss if it just can’t work. I would consider it the “cost” of the pony.

But like others, I suspect this was about more than buying the tack.

[roamingnome]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8098382]
Wow…sorry OP - seller sounds like a total b from your post.

Are people seriously considering the seller was using the tack to get out of the deal last minute? YA RIGHT.

Seller contact OP about the pony. Seller wanted to make some cash - and got mad when she couldn’t.

People are allowed to back out of sales, but maybe agreeing to rehome your pony to someone driving from that far was a bad choice for the seller.[/QUOTE]

If seller wanted to make $$$ why not say, Pony is $1000, all tack included! Simple.

[Amiblue]

Just to note, I was looking to buy or lease. When she offered her to me, I asked her how much she wanted and was told she wasn’t looking for anything but a good home for the pony as her son had outgrown her and she liked having a job to do with kids. That she has been trying to find the perfect one but that it hadn’t happened yet. And yes she is older (just over 20, to not help the stalking COTHer’s, lol ) which did not bother me. I was more worried about her personality and that she was safe and sound for teaching my children. Maintenance was not a problem for us. I have the vet scheduled to come out next week (Wednesday to be specific) in which he was going to look her over and create a game plan if needed to keep her healthy, happy and as mobile as we could for as long as we could in addition to doing vaccines, health check and chiro adjustment on my mare.

It is a shame it didn’t work out. She would have done really well with us, but it isn’t the end of the world. The perfect one for us is out there and with time and patience, it will happen. I do hope this thread helps someone else out there though. It isn’t a fun situation to be in or have to explain to your children and if it prevents a repeat somewhere, then that is a good thing.

[trubandloki]

To those who are offended that the OP started a thread about a transaction with another COTH member - I do not find this thread any more strange than any other thread on this board. It brings up some good points that people should remember, like when getting a pony for your kids, might be best to not make it a done thing in the kids mind until the pony is at home in its new stall.

[Jealoushe]

not really that simple…because not everyone has the money to buy a horse outright - but might have the money for everything else - like myself. I have three free horses - all have a fabulous home with me, but if the person giving me the horse was adamant on selling me a saddle I had no use for and probably no money budgeted for then no - I wouldn’t be getting the saddle no matter how bad I wanted the horse. It’s not that I don’t have the money, it’s that I have a budget that I follow to ensure I stay comfortably financially where I am.

Seller tried to pull a fast one, so I wouldn’t be too quick to play along with that type of person.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;8098213]
This is a good perspective too. Maybe they had nothing against you, liked you, but simply just changed their minds and didn’t want to piss you off by saying that outright, so they made up the tack deal to force you to just say nevermind.

Still annoying. :lol:[/QUOTE]

That kind of dishonest way out of a simple truth sounds like a bad idea. What if the OP had said, “You know what? The coercion worked: Here’s your money for the unwanted tack. Load up the pony”?

[roamingnome]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8098488]
To those who are offended that the OP started a thread about a transaction with another COTH member - I do not find this thread any more strange than any other thread on this board. It brings up some good points that people should remember, like when getting a pony for your kids, might be best to not make it a done thing in the kids mind until the pony is at home in its new stall.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing. I think the best lesson could be- don’t get your kids hopes up for a month+ when it’s not a done deal. I realize the owner said something, but OP didn’t need to keep telling them the pony was coming home either, until you were all in the car and off the property. The PO is no one to the kids, but they trust what Mom & Dad tell them.

[tuckawayfarm]

I keep seeing the pony owner referred to as the seller. Maybe I’m misreading, but I thought this was a free lease situation. In reading through the emails/texts, I didn’t notice the owner indicating that the pony was definitely going home with the OP. It sounded more like she was looking forward to meeting them and hoped it would work out to everyone’s benefit.

If I was trying to find the best situation for a special pony, I admit the fact that the OP didn’t want to buy a saddle that was already fitted for my pony might raise a red flag. The OP’s reason that she wanted to have a saddle custom fitted for kids aged 2, 4, and 6 makes no sense to me as those ages are very unlikely to need the same size.

The fact that the OP seemed as upset over the price of the saddle as the size, would also raise a red flag that the pony might not be getting good quality tack due to budget concerns. That might bring up worries about the budget for vet and farrier, not to mention emergency care.

I’m not saying the OP isn’t financially capable of handling all the expenses this pony might require, but the owner obviously had second thoughts. The owner might not have handled the situation kindly, but we really can’t make that call as we are getting only one side of the story.

OP, I’m sorry you and your kids were disappointed. That’s rough. But your post came across to me as an attack on the owner who seemingly was only trying to make sure her pony landed in the right spot. Being 7 hours away without easy follow up would be scary if she had any doubts at all.

I hope she doesn’t come on this thread. She shouldn’t have to justify turning down a free lease situation that for some reason she felt uncomfortable with.

[Jealoushe]

but you are assuming all the reasons the deal went South. We don’t know whether it was because the seller/giver/leaser (better?) was trying to make an excuse, or was trying to make a quick buck, or was just plain crazy.

Raising an eye at the price of tack does not mean the person might have money issues…if someone wants to sell me some crap saddle for $700 I’m going to say NO, because or price and if it was the wrong size it would be because of size too. Not hard to imagine at all. Would you really buy an 18" or 17" saddle for young kids? Not likely.

[Carolinadreamin]

OP, I’m truly sorry. Perhaps it truly was not a good fit for either side.

Out of pure curiosity, I noticed that you’ve referred to your mare as a rescue, yet also refer to your good relationship with her breeder. Were you able to track down her breeder after you rescued her?

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=Amiblue;8098235]

She is on here, which is why I trusted her more than most, and welcome her to comment of her side of the story.[/QUOTE]

This place is full of odd people. I guess it doesn’t matter now, but were you buying , leasing or what?

I am so sorry for your kids and what a horrible thing to happen to them ( and you). I hope you can find a pony who is close enough and is owned by a normal honest person . They are out there.

One thing I wasn’t clear on from your long first post. Had you seen the pony before? Or were you driving up trailer in tow for a first look?

[beau159]

Sorry you drove so far for this pony to go home empty handed, but the pony is never yours until it’s home in your barn and papers are signed.

The seller backed out. The seller has every right to do so. Just like you had every right to back out, if you would have wanted to. They can refuse to sell to anyone for any reason, even if you drive 7 hours. I agree it sucked you drove so far and your kids got to see him, but he still isn’t yours.

Shame on you for coming on here and making a blast of it, trying to entice the “seller” out of the woodworks for a fight on a public internet forum.

[tuckawayfarm]

but you are assuming all the reasons the deal went South. We don’t know whether it was because the seller/giver/leaser (better?) was trying to make an excuse, or was trying to make a quick buck, or was just plain crazy.

Raising an eye at the price of tack does not mean the person might have money issues…if someone wants to sell me some crap saddle for $700 I’m going to say NO, because or price and if it was the wrong size it would be because of size too. Not hard to imagine at all. Would you really buy an 18" or 17" saddle for young kids? Not likely.

I’m not assuming anything. I think I mentioned that I wasn’t saying the OP couldn’t afford to care for the pony. As a pony mom, I just pointed out that I could understand possible reasons the owner might have second thoughts. But as I also said, we simply don’t know.

Pony saddles come in a very small range of sizes, normally lead-line, 12", 14", and 15". So it would be really odd for the owner to be asking the OP to buy a 16"+ saddle, so odd I think she would have mentioned it.

[Jealoushe]

Not making assumptions but assuming she would have mentioned if it was over 15"?

Right.

All jokes aside, if someone told me they didn’t want the saddle because they were going to get one to fit the pony, I would be thrilled.

[Amiblue]

[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;8098532]
OP, I’m truly sorry. Perhaps it truly was not a good fit for either side.

Out of pure curiosity, I noticed that you’ve referred to your mare as a rescue, yet also refer to your food relationship with her breeder. Were you able to track down her breeder after you rescued her?[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Actually, it is an interesting story. After she finished racing, she disappeared and no one knew where she was. She popped up at an auction and I said I would take her but before anyone could get to her a KB bought her and she was gone. Her breeder and several others searched to find her and she was eventually found on a truck and pulled. She was a mess and they asked if I was still willing to take her and I said absolutely yes! So she went into quarantine and I shipped her down from North Maryland. Have spend all our time getting her weight back up, eliminating rain rot, scratches, lice, infections, etc and she is doing really well. Looking amazing and beautiful. We are out there with her everyday and she is learning she is safe and she will never go anywhere. She just turned 5. Her breeder was one of the main people looking for her and we have become really good friends. She is the best person to chat with! And I am always sending pictures and telling her how things are going. She is an amazing person. Truly!