WOW! New Info in Barisone-Kanarek Saga

[YankeeDuchess]

@soloudinhere

The problem is that the prosecution is not really required to prove premeditation. In New Jersey, they are only required to prove that the defendant did NOT commit the crime in the heat of passion, and that they knew their action could kill a person.

“A person is guilty of murder if he/she: (1) caused the victim’s death or serious bodily injury that then resulted in death; and (2) the defendant did so purposely or knowingly; and (3) did not act in the heat of passion resulting from a reasonable provocation.”

The same applies to attempted murder in the state of New Jersey.

The prosecution is required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not provoked or impassioned at the time of commission of the crime. I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this.

You list the requirements to prove “murder”, and those requirements do not include establishing premeditation. But second degree murder does not require premeditation or deliberation.

If you looked up what is necessary to prove FIRST DEGREE murder, as opposed to “murder”, would you find a requirement for establishing premeditation or deliberation?
He was charged with two counts of attempted first degree murder.

Putting it differently, what do you see as the feature that distinguishes first degree and second degree murder in NJ?

[soloudinhere]

@YankeeDuchess

You list the requirements to prove “murder”, and those requirements do not include establishing premeditation. But second degree murder does not require premeditation or deliberation.

If you looked up what is necessary to prove FIRST DEGREE murder, as opposed to “murder”, would you find a requirement for establishing premeditation or deliberation?
He was charged with two counts of attempted first degree murder.

Putting it differently, what do you see as the feature that distinguishes first degree and second degree murder in NJ?

The distinction doesn’t exist in New Jersey. There is murder and there is felony murder (murder with aggravating circumstances) which carry different minimum sentences. Murder is always a crime in the first degree in New Jersey.

If the standard is not met for murder or felony murder, the charge is manslaughter or, potentially, assault. These also have the “attempted” forms thereof.

"Under New Jersey criminal homicide law there are three forms of manslaughter: aggravated, reckless and passion as a result of reasonable provocation.

Aggravated manslaughter is a crime of the first degree.

Reckless manslaughter and passion as a result of reasonable provocation manslaughter are second degree crimes.

These are all lesser offenses of purposeful and knowing murder."

This is a legal distinction and while I understand what you’re getting at, it is important to understand what you are reading in news articles, etc about charges if you don’t understand a state’s criminal statutes. I am not admitted to the bar in New Jersey but this information is easily found and understood by anyone with legal training.

[YankeeDuchess]

@soloudinhere

The distinction doesn’t exist in New Jersey. There is murder and there is felony murder (murder with aggravating circumstances) which carry different minimum sentences. Murder is always a crime in the first degree in New Jersey.

If the standard is not met for murder or felony murder, the charge is manslaughter or, potentially, assault. These also have the “attempted” forms thereof.

"Under New Jersey criminal homicide law there are three forms of manslaughter: aggravated, reckless and passion as a result of reasonable provocation.

Aggravated manslaughter is a crime of the first degree.

Reckless manslaughter and passion as a result of reasonable provocation manslaughter are second degree crimes.

These are all lesser offenses of purposeful and knowing murder."

This is a legal distinction and while I understand what you’re getting at, it is important to understand what you are reading in news articles, etc about charges if you don’t understand a state’s criminal statutes. I am not admitted to the bar in New Jersey but this information is easily found and understood by anyone with legal training.

    From what I’ve read (not from Law and Order reruns) in NJ there is a distinction between first degree and second degree attempted murder, and the difference has to do with whether or not there was “deliberation” or “planning” prior to the attempt to kill. But obviously you have read different stuff.

[Wilbury_Pie]

Temperature fine, no sore throat, no aches or pains, lots of tp, and other provisions. Good to go with telework. Horse are a-okay :-))

Hope everyone is well. Sending thoughts and prayers to all on this thread and beyond for good health and reasonable fortune.

[SillyHorse]

@YankeeDuchess

In honor of Coronavirus, wouldn’t it be more fun to “share” what items we are stockpiling in anticipation of a lockdown?

Honestly, I don’t think “we” are doing anything in this thread.

[YankeeDuchess]

@SillyHorse

Honestly, I don’t think “we” are doing anything in this thread.

 Just thought it would be more interesting than the usual recipes.

[Knights_Mom]

Service of papers can be done by personal service upon the person by a person 18 years or older who is not a party to the action. In my state, there would be a follow up mailing by first class mail within 1 day of service. The server then submits an Affidavit of Service to the court within 3 business days.

Personal service means the paper touches their body. They don’t need to sign for it or accept it. It can fall to the floor while they walk away. As long as their was contact for 1 second (for instance) they were served.

Another way to serve is by Nail & Mail. Again another person posts the notice to the door and follows that with a mailing. First class mail with a certificate of mailing may be able to be used as it guarantees the mail arrives to the location as opposed to having to be picked up as is the case with Certified Mail.

The last form of service is to serve someone of suitable age and discretion, meaning 14 years of age or older at the premises with follow up mailing. The Affidavit of Service is filled out and submitted describing the appearance of the person, name, or if they refuse to give their name, John or Jane Doe.

This is for my state, not NJ. My job is to issue warrants of eviction (among other things) and to do so I have to analyze files to make sure all paperwork was complete and properly done within required time so I’m speaking from professional knowledge.

The paperwork cited is required to start a case and must be repeated once a case number/docket number/index number is purchased.

[SillyHorse]

@YankeeDuchess

In honor of Coronavirus, wouldn’t it be more fun to “share” what items we are stockpiling in anticipation of a lockdown?

@SillyHorse

Honestly, I don’t think “we” are doing anything in this thread.

@YankeeDuchess

Just thought it would be more interesting than the usual recipes.

And WOOSH, right over your head. :lol:

[YankeeDuchess]

@SillyHorse

And WOOSH, right over your head. :lol:

I understood perfectly that it was an insult, SillyHorse. You were not being too subtle.

[Brown_Derby]

I would expect the April court date to be extended due to the virus.

[eggbutt]

@Brown Derby

I would expect the April court date to be extended due to the virus.

Unless that court will allow video representation. Many courts are only delaying required in-person appearances that can not be conducted via video procedures, meaning the defendant is in custody and a non-jury hearing can be conducted via video.

[eggbutt]

With USEF canceling all events for the next 30 days, I wonder if there will be a mad exodus from the FL area? Yes, this question is as off topic as what I am fixing for dinner.

[SonnysMom]

@eggbutt

With USEF canceling all events for the next 30 days, I wonder if there will be a mad exodus from the FL area? Yes, this question is as off topic as what I am fixing for dinner.

I saw a FB post by a shipper that yes there is a mad exodus. All the shippers are scrambling to rearrange schedules.

[La-LaPopRider]

@rockonxox

Oh absolutely! All you have to do is go to your profile and click on manage posts. You can select list view, but grid view is very easy and will cluster everything together (shared posts, photos, typed posts, etc) and you check the little box on everything you want gone and delete. It is incredibly easy and quick, on a desktop at least, to remove posts you made or that others made.

Ive deleted zero posts. Period. Further, I find it strange Eggbutt thinks I have stopped posting on my social media pages. Just because I’ve made sure no one aside from friends & the DA can see them, doesn’t mean I have stopped posting or responding.
FYI- all it takes is a subpoena to get any & all fb (or, other SM posts/exchanges) - deleted or not. Though, again, zero posts have been deleted. Who would have the time for that?? Not me! Then again, just when I assume people have lives, Eggbutt has started another thread here! Surprise! Not really.

[La-LaPopRider]

@eggbutt

With USEF canceling all events for the next 30 days, I wonder if there will be a mad exodus from the FL area? Yes, this question is as off topic as what I am fixing for dinner.

Yes. You do seem to have trouble staying on topic. Even topics, you yourself started. Strange. Not to mention, a tiny bit obsessive- no?

[La-LaPopRider]

@Omgitsme

I literally could not be less surprised that LK has been lying out her ass.

Thank god defense attorneys tell the truth. Cough, cough.

[La-LaPopRider]

@eggbutt

He is supposed to be a master in this type of case so I would think he knows what he is doing. My question is why was Kirby Kanarek listening outside the door? How did she even know about it?

So… Now there was “a door?” How about you make up the story as you go along… like you’ve been doing since day 1? Was it a haunted door? Please… continue your story! I’m in suspense!

[La-LaPopRider]

@GiveEmEl

Oh this is just beautiful. (I mean, not that she got shot. I’m going to go ahead and say it again: he shouldn’t have shot her)
Looks like the real LK is being revealed . Wonder how her supposed TWO BNTs in Wellington are feeling right now. (Let’s be real, they probably only exist in her head.)

Let’s be real. They don’t GAF. Do you think they’re unaware of this entire situation? Here’s what you do: Follow the canal on the on the trail riding side in DR. Do this on a Tuesday, weds, thurs, Fri & sat. With 4 horses to train, back to back, there’s a fairly GOOD chance you’ll see what exists IRL. Just shout out at us & wave hi! Or… watch tv. It’s of zero consequence to me. Ciao!

[La-LaPopRider]

@YankeeDuchess

I understand the moderators required “new developments” in the case to reopen discussion on Barisone/Kanarek.

As far as “new developments”, the article states that Barisone has not been offered a plea deal, and the defense attorney wants to delay the trial (yawn), citing lots of material in discovery. The fact that Barisone has not been offered a plea deal is actually the absence of a new development; defense attorneys almost always want to delay.

So what in the article did you regard as “new developments”?

EXACTLY! Eggbutt doesn’t seem to comprehend how the law works & I must admit, I find her morbid obsession with me to me to go far beyond victim shaming, way before this point. Now, it’s just over the top in weirdness. Oh well. Sad for her.

[Knights_Mom]

Most courts are closing. My court has us going in tomorrow and we’ll be closed after that. Only open are emergency places, criminal court, orders of protection in Family, illegal lockouts. More details tomorrow.