Missed that. Then yes - I’d guess that it’s the entrapment.
I knew a horse that was a confirmed rearer. Reared at the starting gate, reared crossing the barrier onto the polo field, reared if rider held the reins too tight mounting up and definitely reared if anyone tried to ride him in a frame.
He’d load in a trailer but then have a meltdown and refuse to unload anywhere but home.
Scope showed he had some deformity / injury to his windpipe and if his head was tilted a certain way it restricted his airflow. I woulda reared too.
At any rate, I don’t think this is a good situation for OP or her horse.
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Maybe this is the most important takeaway of all. The OP has tried to do right by this horse, but after numerous attempts to find a trainer, hasn’t been able to find one who she feels comfortable working with on herself and her horse as a team. Since none of us were there, putting aside the debate of what occurred, the OP clearly isn’t getting what she needs as a rider to progress, nor is her horse. It’s obviously been very stressful for the OP to go through this, and my heart really goes out to someone who was just looking for an appropriate mount to have fun with and move from advanced beginner to intermediate as a rider, skill-wise.
Either the option is to do what you’ve been doing–no pressure on the horse at all, hope like hell the two of you can maintain this “peace treaty”–or think of some way to move him on.
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Given this thread and the other one, sell this horse and find a good qualified trustworthy trainer to find a suitable horse.
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Ulcers maybe?
A friend just bought a “too good to be true” priced warmblood. The horse is miserable (like the OPs horse sounds) and I think she was very naive thinking she knew better than the trainers in his life previously. Same as OPs horse; I doubt his previous owner’s gave up easily after paying to import a horse. I can see thinking that an easier life may have been the answer, but that is apparently not the case. My guess is my friend’s horse, like OP’s horse, has serious soundness issues. Maybe something as hard to pin down as a connective tissue disease which would cause ligament and tendon issues at somewhat random, or? I would PTS or retire a horse like this rather than keep throwing money at it, or put myself at bodily risk. It doesn’t sound like horse or owner is happy.
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My initial thought was add liability coverage or get liability insurance for your horse. Then as I read more posts from others and more info from the OP, at the very least OP should have her own liability insurance, however, if you are posting a thread about WWYD if your horse injured a trainer, I’d be thinking long and hard about why I have a horse like this. Well I did have a horse like that and my trainer told it like it was - he’s not for me, he has to go because she can’t risk herself or assistant trainer getting hurt. IMO its one thing if the accident was more of a fluke and out of character for the horse. . It’s another when you know the horse has a history of dangerous behavior and someone gets hurt. In that situation you could have potential liability issue should someone get hurt. If a trainer gets hurt that affects their livelihood. While this is about WWYD about a trainer getting hurt, what about you? Why risk it?
I agree with the other posters who said it might be time to rethink keeping this horse in work - might be time to change direction. Are you in a position to keep him as a pasture pet? or would he be happier as a trail horse going out a 2-3 times a week.
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Backing the horse all the way around the ring seems like a pretty objective observation, and one that I can’t see any practical explanation for, other than trainer temper tantrum.
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Has this horse ever been properly vetted? Beyond a bute trial and gastrogaurd, which doesn’t even treat hind gut ulcers? 95 percent of horses will not go above and beyond in their efforts to be bad for no reason, their reason is usually pain. The other 5 percent that are not painful and just extremely difficult personalities are not at all appropriate for a beginner.
I would not let your trainer ride this horse on your property. Too much liability and I am betting they do not have trainers insurance by the way they handled your horse which does not sound at all productive or an improvement on the ride.
Also questioning why your trainer wants to put themselves in the position to ride a dangerous horse. This is a sport where people get killed or seriously/permanently injured. Your life can change in a split second. Please do not take that lightly. Your trainer should not take that lightly.
Get some actual diagnostics and vetting done on this horse. Know for a fact this is not a pain component. Then send him to a competent trainer who is well versed in rank horses with behavioral issues if all vetting is normal (I’m betting it won’t be).
If behavioral issues do persist and you decide to sell, please, sell him as a companion so the next person doesn’t get killed trying to “fix” him.
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This is where the ANRC stabilization phase stuff is super helpful if you’re on your own (and even if not).
It’s “old” now, but Littauer(sp) was right. Haven’t had a horse yet that hasn’t responded to this way of thinking and riding.
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I agree. One of the last things you want to do with a horse that refuses to go forward is force them to go backward. Forward movement cures rearing, bucking, and other problematic behavior. Why this horse refuses to go forward needs to be pursued and the first place to start is a thorough lameness evaluation. Punishing the horse without knowing if this is pain related is totally unfair and it will destroy this horse’s brain if being punished for pain.
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I just have doubts on the entire thing, personally.
Again, out the trainer, OP. If they are that bad, we ALL need to know who to stay away from.
But it sounds like either the horse or the owner is the problem here, which it can be either when the horse is flunking trainer after trainer, and all of her friends have ostracized her.
Think of someone who moves barns constantly - their story of a place vs what actually happened will be WILDLY different.
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OP, the debate back and forth over the trainer’s actions with your horse is really irrelevant to your central struggle.
It’s time to move on from this horse. You don’t have the skill set to get him where you want him to be. It’s possible nobody can get him to where you want him to be, because some horses are just broken in some way beyond repair.
Horse ownership is not supposed to be a constant battle. Let this one go and get back to enjoying riding a horse that is appropriate for you. Making this choice will not be a failure, but a win.
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I am appalled at the description of what happened to your horse, OP. My trainer would never “school” a horse that way. Especially one known to have issues.
I just want to remind you to be careful getting on this horse for your next few rides. He could have had some skeletons pulled out of the closet and exhibit dangerous behavior with you now.
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Several years ago I was seriously injured on a horse that I was training for someone else. I never considered placing blame on anyone other than myself - nobody forced me to get on the horse and nobody forced me to ignore the warnings the horse was giving me. Every time we sit on top of a 1000lb animal, we are risking our lives.
I agree with the comments that you should have a trainer sign a waiver before they get on your horse. I don’t think that’s common practice, but maybe it should be?
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On a purely practical basis, too, if the horse (before being owned by the OP) already had a reputation, the issue might also arise that there is a limited pool of trainers willing to work with the horse.
Again, looping back to the beginning of the thread, trainers who have been around the block many times will think twice about the risk/reward calculus of working with a dangerous horse.
Even if the horse isn’t a rogue at heart, if the owner doesn’t have access to trainers in her area and the horse won’t get on a trailer, that has to affect the owner’s decision to keep the horse or not. Just like someone with a limited budget for training rides and a limited skill set riding-wise should shy away from a horse advertised as “needs a program” or “needs owner willing to work with a trainer.”
OP, did you have a heart-to-heart with the trainer to discuss the session that made you uncomfortable? Because being able to talk honestly with a trainer is important, too.
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I do not see how outing the trainer would be in the OP’s best interest. Not to mention the trainer was recommended by her BO.
Even though you are a beginner/novice, you can ask a “trainer” to stop and explain what they are doing. Obviously, not in the middle of a rodeo. But certainly, when she was backing the horse around the ring and lunging him in a tight circle. You are the voice for your horse.
Have you ridden your horse since the trainer rode him?
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Sorry you’re in this situation OP. It sounds like you’ve already put a lot of time love and money into Dobbin. Now might be a good time to step back and have a heart to heart with yourself. Evaluate the situation. What are your goals/wants as a rider? What would you like to do?
If your heart is set on specific goals such as showing etc and Dobbin doesn’t fit those goals, it might be time for Dobbin to move on.
If your heart is set on keeping Dobbin, are you okay sacrificing those goals? Or spending a lot of time and money on vet bills ruling out any pain issues? Or time and money on trainer’s? That time and money could be invested in another horse- maybe a young/ green bean with an agreeable temper and good head from a reputable breeder?
Even if Dobbin has improved a bit since coming home with you, it doesn’t sound like he’s ever going to be the horse you want or need him to be.
This is a difficult situation, especially when you’re emotionally invested and attached to the animal. Best of luck OP
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I really feel for this poster. Everyone that is suggesting that she “move on”, you are right, but you are also asking her to make a much harder choice than just sell him.
You cannot sell a horse that is unable to be tried or shipped. You cannot really even give it away. If you do, quite frankly even if someone is willing to take it and able to load it, the odds of it being a good situation are very low. (And there are almost no “companion homes”, trust me on this. I train for a horse rescue, they barely exist and are usually temporary. The only safe horse is a rideable horse.)
So options for this poster are 1) be stuck with horse they are unable to enjoy 2) stick head in the sand and try to give away, with low chance of success 3) put down 4) retire and continue to pay for, possibly being unable to support second horse for enjoyment.
Those are really hard choices.
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100% and I do think everyone urging the OP to move on realizes that it’s not an easy or comfortable choice.
On the other hand, sticking with the horse and trying to make the horse more rideable means dealing with what seems to be a very limited pool of trainers at a barn that doesn’t even have much access to trails or fun things to do for the OP with a very expensive “project.”
It is a choice I don’t envy the OP having to make, for sure.
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