[QUOTE=EquineLVR;7441474]
What about Hunter? anyone know?
http://www.w2holsteiners.com/w2-stallions.html[/QUOTE]
I was going to mention him but he’s not AHS approved that I’m aware of is he?. He does have offspring at Intermediate now and he’s only been lightly used. I have yet to see a chestnut foal by him.
Wendy is super easy to get in touch with.
[QUOTE=EquineLVR;7441426]
Escudo I and II - I believe are Homozygous…
Actually I take that back - there are chestnut babies…[/QUOTE]
Yeah…I have one. Chestnut filly out of a Dark brown mare by Escudo I. VERY chestnut. Damnit. 
OP–If you can’t find Homozygous Black with jumper lines…have you thought about looking at Greys? There are a TON of grey jumper boys out there and while I personally would take red over grey…Grey does sell more easily.
[QUOTE=EquineLVR;7441474]
What about Hunter? anyone know?
http://www.w2holsteiners.com/w2-stallions.html[/QUOTE]
He is lovely but I thought he produced big/tall…and a bit heavier (even though he has a ton of blood). Maybe I’m wrong but I think you do need to be careful about not a too tall mare…but he is a lovely boy. (all my mares throw size so I’m a little over careful about that)
Now the stallion below him…Charly Chaplin might be very interesting as well. Quite a bit of blood in his pedigree and strong eventing dam line. I’d look hard at him for an event baby. (and he is grey!)
Numero Uno - he is approved Hanoverian.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7441658]
Now the stallion below him…Charly Chaplin might be very interesting as well. Quite a bit of blood in his pedigree and strong eventing dam line. I’d look hard at him for an event baby. (and he is grey!)[/QUOTE]
I really like the look of this guy, but as far as I know he is not available for breeding to outside mares? Maybe this has changed for 2014?
[QUOTE=Tradewind;7439975]
I’ve always been a huge fan of Windfall as a competition horse and he is certainly proven in performance, but he has yet to produce anything that is of his calibre, IMO. I’ve seen some of the Windfall babies: a lot are small (15.2-15.3) and they’ve promised a lot but most that I’ve seen that looked really promising in the YEH series and at the lower levels haven’t made it past Prelim, even in the hands of team riders. I really like Windfall himself but he wouldn’t be my top choice, especially considering his stud fee: if I’m going to pay that kind of money to breed to a stallion, he’d better be producing top level horses.
If you were willing to consider Trakehner, you might go with Buddenbrock. Not homozygous but certainly PROVEN in terms of producing top level offspring in dressage and eventing.[/QUOTE]
Vandiver (Werner Given) is running at Advanced and Lickety Split (Barb Crabo) and Komik (Alexandra Knowles) have come out at Intermediate so far this year. Jon Holling’s Kompass is by Windfall, was out at Intermediate last year, hasn’t come out yet this year.
If you want to have a quick look at the pedigree of competing eventing Trakehners, there are lists here http://trakehnercommunity.forumotion.com/f9-the-lounge
There’s a current list for 2014 and scroll down for last year’s list. For eventing sires, I’d take a long hard look at Heling GS and Windfall Pg*E
[QUOTE=Molly Malone;7442167]
Vandiver (Werner Given) is running at Advanced and Lickety Split (Barb Crabo) and Komik (Alexandra Knowles) have come out at Intermediate so far this year. Jon Holling’s Kompass is by Windfall, was out at Intermediate last year, hasn’t come out yet this year.
;)[/QUOTE]
Also Project Runway (Max McManamy). He didn’t do much last year, and has gotten around at Advanced, but was 1st and 3rd in the two CCI** he’s done.
Not sure if you would go with frozen, but Quite Easy is Hanoverian approved. I’m not positive that he’s homozygous, but as far as I can tell, the closest chestnut is four generations back.
Based on what you’ve said there are three big things to consider in your decision, and none of them really complement each other.
[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;7436012]
…if I want to convince my SO to let me continue breeding, my foals need to sell quicker…[/QUOTE]
You need to sell your foals more quickly–what does this mean? Before weaning? In-utero? Do you need to consider the way you market your horses and make some improvements? Because you’re a fairly new breeder with a relatively unproven breeding program, choosing a hot-and-trendy sire would attract more foal buyers.
[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;7436012]…thus… Colour becomes a factor.
So, who are the homozygous black Hano-approved jumper/eventing-type stallions?[/QUOTE]
Breeding for color limits your stallion choices considerably, and Hanoverian-only reduces the list of possible studs even more. What about looking at homozygous-black stallions that aren’t HAN-approved? Or choosing rarer colors, like buckskin or palomino?
If the goal is to breed a good eventing prospect why not look at proven eventing sires, regardless of color? And there’s less demand for eventing prospects than there are for dressage or jumping prospects, correct? Judging by the various posts over on the Eventing Forum, eventers like searching for horses that are old enough to start under saddle. If you’re breeding an event horse you might have to wait longer until your foal sells.
If I were you I’d sit down with the SO and figure out exactly what the rules of the game are, then go from there. You’ve got a couple of nice mares–good luck on whatever you decide.
[QUOTE=Molly Malone;7442167]
Vandiver (Werner Given) is running at Advanced and Lickety Split (Barb Crabo) and Komik (Alexandra Knowles) have come out at Intermediate so far this year. Jon Holling’s Kompass is by Windfall, was out at Intermediate last year, hasn’t come out yet this year.
;)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for pointing these out, Molly Malone. I have seen a few of his offspring that seemed promising and that I’ve really liked the look of. However, I still feel that given the number of Windfall babies on the ground and the opportunities many of them have been afforded, I’m not convinced. His stud fee is so high that I need to see more make it to the highest level before I would recommend him: his breeding fee is valued considerably higher than any other stallion I’ve seen in North America, yet one can breed for a lot less to multiple stallions in Europe that have much more impressive production records in terms of offspring performance.
I think few breeders would fork out $3000 for a stud fee to breed an amateur horse that might make it to Prelim or Intermediate. If the cachet of breeding to a horse on a former Olympic team is enough (as it seems to be for many), then I say go for it. I, personally, would only spend that kind of cash with the intention of (hopefully) breeding a real top level prospect. Others may have different breeding goals, though…
[QUOTE=armchair_Quaterback;7442618]
Based on what you’ve said there are three big things to consider in your decision, and none of them really complement each other.
You need to sell your foals more quickly–what does this mean? Before weaning? In-utero? Do you need to consider the way you market your horses and make some improvements? Because you’re a fairly new breeder with a relatively unproven breeding program, choosing a hot-and-trendy sire would attract more foal buyers.
Breeding for color limits your stallion choices considerably, and Hanoverian-only reduces the list of possible studs even more. What about looking at homozygous-black stallions that aren’t HAN-approved? Or choosing rarer colors, like buckskin or palomino?
If the goal is to breed a good eventing prospect why not look at proven eventing sires, regardless of color? And there’s less demand for eventing prospects than there are for dressage or jumping prospects, correct? Judging by the various posts over on the Eventing Forum, eventers like searching for horses that are old enough to start under saddle. If you’re breeding an event horse you might have to wait longer until your foal sells.
If I were you I’d sit down with the SO and figure out exactly what the rules of the game are, then go from there. You’ve got a couple of nice mares–good luck on whatever you decide.[/QUOTE]
Good post, armchair_Q. There are few event horse breeders in North America (compared with those breeding for the other disciplines) because there is a very limited market for event-bred foals. If your intention is to sell the foal, I agree that you might want to focus on breeding for the dressage or jumper markets (depending on your mare’s pedigree and what she brings to the table).
Jumpers and eventers seem the least likely to care about color to me. They generally don’t even care about pedigree either although when talking about in utero or young foals pedigree is more or less all you have to judge them by. My guess is color is not the problem if you are having trouble selling your stock.
[QUOTE=armchair_Quaterback;7442618]
Based on what you’ve said there are three big things to consider in your decision, and none of them really complement each other.
You need to sell your foals more quickly–what does this mean? Before weaning? In-utero? Do you need to consider the way you market your horses and make some improvements? Because you’re a fairly new breeder with a relatively unproven breeding program, choosing a hot-and-trendy sire would attract more foal buyers.
Breeding for color limits your stallion choices considerably, and Hanoverian-only reduces the list of possible studs even more. What about looking at homozygous-black stallions that aren’t HAN-approved? Or choosing rarer colors, like buckskin or palomino?
If the goal is to breed a good eventing prospect why not look at proven eventing sires, regardless of color? And there’s less demand for eventing prospects than there are for dressage or jumping prospects, correct? Judging by the various posts over on the Eventing Forum, eventers like searching for horses that are old enough to start under saddle. If you’re breeding an event horse you might have to wait longer until your foal sells.
If I were you I’d sit down with the SO and figure out exactly what the rules of the game are, then go from there. You’ve got a couple of nice mares–good luck on whatever you decide.[/QUOTE]
Excellent post! Personally I don’t breed to a registry, I breed to a stallion that is best for my mare(s). If I need to, I then get the mare approved to his registry.
IME riders rarely care about what registry the horse is in.
You’ve already restricted yourself enough with the color thing (which I DO understand, but it’s still a restriction), don’t do it more.
BTW, the suggestion of grey is interesting…but if she wants to sell them as foals, what if she gets a chestnut who is going to grey?:eek:
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7442877]
BTW, the suggestion of grey is interesting…but if she wants to sell them as foals, what if she gets a chestnut who is going to grey?:eek:[/QUOTE]
Those are pretty…they turn a cool pink color for a while.
[QUOTE=Tradewind;7439975]
I’ve always been a huge fan of Windfall as a competition horse and he is certainly proven in performance, but he has yet to produce anything that is of his calibre, IMO. I’ve seen some of the Windfall babies: a lot are small (15.2-15.3) and they’ve promised a lot but most that I’ve seen that looked really promising in the YEH series and at the lower levels haven’t made it past Prelim, even in the hands of team riders. I really like Windfall himself but he wouldn’t be my top choice, especially considering his stud fee: if I’m going to pay that kind of money to breed to a stallion, he’d better be producing top level horses.
If you were willing to consider Trakehner, you might go with Buddenbrock. Not homozygous but certainly PROVEN in terms of producing top level offspring in dressage and eventing.[/QUOTE]
I checked out Buddenbrock, because I’m shopping for a proven eventing sire myself for next year. I could only find 2 offspring who have competed at CT, one making it only to Prelim. Plus he’s not listed on the website of the owner’s so maybe he’s retired? He’s a 1994 model, after all.
Again, I have no idea if he’s approved Han. or not, or even if he’s homozygous, but this guy is awesome…I want to breed to him myself. I’ve talked to his breeder and she regularly sells his get as foals.
http://americantrakehner.com/stallions/Tzigane.asp
The stallion himself is in Germany, but he still freezes well and it’s a LFG contract.
Also, although a horse like Windfall IS expensive, one excellent way to sell foals is by using a sire who is “famous” and everyone knows was an Olympic competitor. Personally, I’d use Tzigane before Windfall, but Tiz has Condus as a damsire and I LOVE anything Ramses related. But that’s just me.
Buddenbrock is approved Han and he has get competing at the highest levels - the (approved) Glenn Grant is just one off the top of my head. His owner isn’t internet savvy for want of a better phrase and honestly, he doesn’t need to advertise Buddenbrock - his book filled immediately last year. Tzigane is an excellent choice given his (comparatively) low numbers of foals of age competing successfully in eventing. I don’t disagree with your assessment of Windfall, Tradewind, but even his owner will tell you that he needs a specific type of mare.
Pretty sure Buddenbrock has many offspring at the 2*+ level. I thought he had a few who have done a 4*. But he was also used for UL dressage horses. His event horses are best out of TB mares. He has only been in the US for a couple of years…so most of his offspring are in Europe.
I saw him in person…lovely horse.
You know what Mathilde? I have sent you 2 suggestions by pm but there is also Schwarzenegger (already mentionned in this thread). Not exactly eventing focused, but good jumper, nice mover, would imho suits nicely your tb mare and the owner is great to deal with. You’d get the black, the Hano approved, he’s in Canada, fresh semen available, good quality semen, and he has dual talent so crossed with your tb mare, who knows if this youngster would be a good eventing candidate later? But by the time you’ll know that, he can attract clients from both jumping or dressage side. He is definitely on my top 10 list of “available in cooled semen” Hanoverian stallions in NA right now.
http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/Buddenbrock.asp Info on Buddenbrock and his offspring - you may have to research the names to see what all they have done etc, but yes he is PROVEN in what he has produced and this list is by no means a “complete” list. Most offspring are in Europe. Joe (who posts on this forum) does not historically “advertise” ANY of his stallions/offspring - and frankly has never had the real need to do so. He gets the breedings, the sales etc without it so you arent’ going to convince him that he needs to change what he’s always done at this stage of the game.
Buddenbrock and Tizgane both though are not homozygous although most of Buddi’s offspring are dark he does have the occassional chestnut.
Not sure if he’s homozygous but I can tell you his dam has never had a chestnut and he’s Hano approved and definitely good for eventing
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