People, if we keep this up, the mods are going to close this to further posting.
Maybe we can all stop sniping at each other. As the charges wind their way through the system, it would be nice to not have to start a different thread to continue to discuss developments cause we couldn’t play nice on this one. We are supposed to be rational adults who should be able to discuss things without resorting to juvenile bickering.
So… I was just thinking about how much I am learning on this hundred-something page thread, despite the ups and downs. I have done “grey rock” since my teens (and never knew it was “grey rock”), learned something about tenant law, and got some insights on this tragic and incomprehensible situation. Thank you to all who are contributing their thoughts and knowledge.
At some point I’ll start reading about horses again :-).
Fall is coming so next we share recipes for Butternut Squash Soup… yummies!
It’s very good with shiitake!
And yet, I don’t know a single US American who would feel you should carry a gun “just in case” in a situation like this (despite knowing many, many US gun owners). This is not about culture, it’s about a f-ed up thing that happened as a result of the actions of a small number of individuals. Individuals whose risk assessment and (poor) decision making was likely driven by emotion and fear and a number of other complexities that are not peculiar to American culture.
I don’t think anyone outside of Canada cares in particular whether it seems unreasonable from a Canadian perspective. It seems unreasonable from a human perspective. Delving into national differences that have been codified not uncontroversially in law is asking for a political debate that doesn’t belong on a dressage forum.
I must have misunderstood your original post - I thought you had said it was NOT unreasonable for him to bring a gun if he feared LK would get violent. And I am certain there are many others here who feel that carrying a gun for protection in light of her alleged harassment and craziness was quite appropriate. (Carrying the gun, not using it on her. Nobody thinks that was appropriate).
I do have many American friends who feel this way - particularly those who live in the south - and am surprised you claim to not know a single one. The right to defend your property is deeply engrained in some regions / cultures.
Our personal view of guns will colour how we each interpret MB (allegedly) bringing a firearm with him when he went to talk to LK. Some will see it as clear pre-meditation and intent to harm her. Others will see it as evidence he was fearful and believed he needed a gun to protect himself.
Wow. I hadn’t checked this thread since the last week of August. This is the thread that just keeps on giving, isn’t it? I went googling for trial dates, but couldn’t find anything yet.
It will be interesting to see which way this goes. I get the frustration that LK can apparently cause, and see that it’s a clear pattern with her. I just don’t see a self defense case unless she was reading on the porch and pulled a deadly weapon when approached.
Did they maybe find a mini-bottle of cranberry juice at the scene? :lol:
I hope LK makes a full recovery and takes some steps to learn how to deescalate conflicts rather them seeming to look for them. Which doesn’t mean I’m excusing MB’s behavior, just that even when the result isn’t your fault, you should be able to clearly see that you didn’t do anything to help the situation. I hope MB realizes his own part in messing up that good life that he was mumbling about. It’s despicable that this kind of drama ended up in a shooting. :mad:
We don’t know the circumstances surrounding the shooting, and who’s gun was used. The available information seems to be coming from two rather sketchy witnesses.
Not believing anything posted here by LK. No one really knows what happened. At this point, the only thing that is clear to me is that we will have to wait till this all plays out in the courtroom. Playing the Southern Bell, Innocent victim clean and white as snow, is not passing the smell test. This will be an interesting case for sure and I’m sure the whole horse world will be watching.
Unless there’s a George Morris thing on TV at that same time. Then horsepeople around the country will be getting carpal tunnel from clicking the remote back and forth. 
@Knights Mom I’ve appreciated your contributions, many of which have educated me regarding the laws involved. I’ve chortled a few times at the hypocritical posts calling you out for being direct and, by their definition, rude, while simultaneously delivering petulant high school girl attitude.
I’m intimately familiar with abusive personalities like LK, and while violence is never the answer and no one deserved to get shot, her inability to acknowledge any accountability for the situations she has found herself in over and over again is the hallmark of her kind.
THANK YOU! It is quite obvious.
And on FB our real names show.
My time is split mostly evenly between this thread and watching the Keeneland yearlings…
Ah. The thing I thought was potentially reasonable was interpreting someone’s public post about a personal firearm arsenal and history of volatile behavior directed at you as a very low probability, high consequence risk to your health or life.
From there I think individual variation takes over, and I think a majority of people, regardless of what side of the border they’re on, would not elect to arm themselves with a gun for the purpose of engaging with someone they view as potentially violent. Low probability high consequence risk seems to be handled very differently by different people, and while I could imagine bringing a gun as one possible response to that risk, it’s not a decision I think is particularly reasonable or common regardless of national culture.
Think about it this way. I wear a riding helmet not because I plan to become a lawn dart on any given day, but because there is a very low probability risk that any given ride could result in a devastating TBI. I still choose to ride, because riding is sufficiently important to me to engage with that risk, but I mitigate it to the extent that I’m able with the helmet. My brother in law will never, ever ride a horse due to a lower motivation to ride, and a stronger aversion to the possible negative consequence. My uncle thinks riding helmets are for sissies (his words) and his unconscious risk mitigation takes the form of riding quiet stock types in relatively tranquil environments and not being willing to touch a hot mare with a ten foot pole. Different approaches to the same confoundingly improbable risk.
Reactions to a low probability risk of armed conflict will vary based on individual personalities and priorities and fears, and those are very hard to do the calculus on, especially in a situation like this where so little is known. I believe a majority of people the world over, including in the US, would probably generally not arm themselves and engage with someone they thought was unhinged and possibly armed – self preservation is a pretty strong, universal drive. But does decision-making change if you think there’s a 1% chance of harm, vs. a 0.0001% chance? Or if your motivation for face-to-face interaction is a tenant issue vs. something you perceive (rightly or wrongly) as an immediate threat to your family? There is some set of people in some set of circumstances who will bring a gun and go over, just like I wear a riding helmet and mount up. I don’t think US Americans make up the majority of that set of hypothetical actors who would react to risk that way, necessarily, because national culture is just one, fairly abstruse component that competes with things like personality and fear and purpose in conditioning a reaction.
I can’t think of a single soul who’d think bringing a gun “just in case” in this kind of situation is smart. Maybe one person I can think of would maybe consider it. Honestly. I think this could veer very easily into politics, but for several reasons most of the people I know in the US have considerable respect for the destructive power of a high velocity projectile and do not take firearms lightly.
The facts that are out there are consistent with either villainous intent or fear-driven reaction to a certain type of risk. Regardless of one’s perspective, I think it’s smarter to remain agnostic about that until more is known. But it’s your prerogative to form your own opinions.
There is SO much more to this story then your made aware of by a “self made victim”. The only victims in this case are MB, MH, and their employees on the farm. Trust me when I say you have no idea the havoc this woman caused for these people. LK takes no responsibility for her actions, she never will. I can honestly say she is insane she pushes and pushes and pushes and literally drives one off their rocker. LK reiterates her damsel in distress victim claim but it is nothing like that she is the Villian. MB took the wrong approach by shooting and We are happy she survived… However this man felt threatened and scared on his own farm. If you could hear the tone in his voice via speaking with me (a stranger) a week prior to this shooting. He was begging and pleading for help. He sounded like he was ready to cry while telling me the horrific things that were happening on his farm. Mary was just as frightened by this lunatics behavior pattern. I know from 4 years of horrific abuse by this girl that she is relentless and will drive you insane . There was one day when Carmen and his friend went to a ball game that I completely lost it on her and replied to her many harassing messages I advised the detective and attorney how she pushes you until it physically causes you pain and mental anguish
I agree. No one deserves to get shot.
Well I take that back. Hitler deserved to be shot.
But LK? No.
I know quite a lot about what was going on at MB’s farm. As I spend a lot of time both in the ring and in the tack room, I hear and see everything. So ask away! I know it all !!!
Who are you?
I am The Blue Saddle !!!
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