Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[skydy]

@AMackechnie

Perhaps it has already been answered somewhere up thread, but are any of the youngsters in this breeding program of an age to have been started under saddle, and are any of them old enough to be actively competing under saddle?

I am not a facebook member but this is the only photo of one of her (what looks to be) older than weanling stock, that I have seen. From earlier in this thread;

@BrownDerby

[skydy]

@Kasheare, I’m sure it must be difficult to read so many negative opinions here about the condition of your mares and foals, and of the manner in which you manage your breeding hobby.

Most people here don’t know you from Adam, it is not a personal issue.
You just don’t seem to understand basic management, nutrition or good breeding practices.

As much as you want to believe that no one here knows what they are talking about, I think that is a defense mechanism on your part.

You can learn to do better and I think everyone here would be happy for you and your horses if you did. Perhaps you just have too much on your plate and are too busy with your braiding jobs to have the time to learn about basic husbandry and performance horse breeding.

By now you must have realized that your hands off breeding practices are not successful and that your horses are suffering for it.

Just do better. Take a deep breath and stop breeding until you can afford to make time to ensure the proper care and nutrition of your breeding stock and to think more about what is ideal in sporthorse conformation .

[LilDunFilly]

@AMackechnie

Perhaps it has already been answered somewhere up thread, but are any of the youngsters in this breeding program of an age to have been started under saddle, and are any of them old enough to be actively competing under saddle?

There are a couple that have been mentioned who are under saddle. Some were mentioned on the other thread Dutch harness horse drama. Update major mare/ foal neglect Nov 2023 post 1782 Update Kate Shearer responds post 1930 Nov 25/23. I’ve gone ahead and just grabbed pictures to compile here.

1. 3 year old Gelding, out of Bianca.

He allegedly hadn’t been started under saddle as of when this was posted (January 2024)
Some other picture Kate posted in mid-late 2023

2. “Phoebe” (2016 KWPN Mare, out of JD’s Bianca “Bianca”)- link to original sale ad
   She’s posted a bunch about this one a lot. Kate mentioned her in the 1st COTH thread, put this mare was discussed early this month in this thread.

Mare at age 2.

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Video of her posted in early 2024 (note the large amount of the tail swishing)

These were mentioned in the other thread

1. Pandemonium KG (2020 Half-Arab Mare, out of Oak Grove Annabelle “Annie”) Link to original comment, showing her first ride as a 2 year old
   Quick Google search pulled up her foal ad, in-hand show results, Scottsdale show resultsand various mentions on COTH. She’s apparently from Kate’s first foal crop?
   Here is a picture Kate said was of her as a 2-year-old
   

   

2. Phorce Awakens KG (2020 Half-Arab Mare, out of My Chanell)- mentioned here
   Here are some pictures I found of her that Kate posted in May 2023
   

   
   
   
   
   
   Here is a picture Kate said was of the mare as a 2-year-old
   
   

There are more photos of some of her stock when they’re older, but no other obviously public ones or of any under saddle. The grey mare is the one she’s posted about the most.

[trubandloki]

Wow, thank you @LilDunFilly. Great job.

Am I looking at this incorrectly or does Kate have a different opinion on what won means than I do?

She appears to have entered four classes, two with the owner handling two with someone else handling and the owner and the handler each got a 3rd place, and no placings in the other two classes.

I mean, 3rd place out of 11 or 12 is a great placing and for sure something to be proud of, but it is not winning.

[AMackechnie]

Thank you for putting that together.

[Aussie_2020]

Well fed and shiny horses at last! It’s hard to see detail in the blurry pic of the gray jumping but, are those draw reins?

[Rumorhasit93]

@Aussie_2020

Well fed and shiny horses at last! It’s hard to see detail in the blurry pic of the gray jumping but, are those draw reins?

It’s hard to tell, but I think you’re right. The way the cheek piece is pulled and the noseband is in place makes it look like draw reins.

Regardless, definitely nothing to write home about. Looks short strided and unhappy. No fault of the riders, likely. The horse isn’t built correctly for the job.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Rumorhasit93

Regardless, definitely nothing to write home about. Looks short strided and unhappy. No fault of the riders, likely. The horse isn’t built correctly for the job.

Camped out behind, and the croup is pretty flat and not very long.

No wonder in the video of her jumping when she is older, there is a lot of tail swishing. I would imagine her hocks and hind end hurt. She’s better built for light harness work than for jumping.

Seems like a willing mare, all things considered.

The bay got a slightly better hind end. He looks like he might be a little camped out as well though.

[McGurk]

I wondered that as well. Nothing says good training like jumping in draw reins.

[LilDunFilly]

@trubandloki

Wow, thank you @LilDunFilly. Great job.

My pleasure!

@trubandloki

Am I looking at this incorrectly or does Kate have a different opinion on what won means than I do?

Kate definitely… stretched the truth there. I would say I’d think 3rd is technically “winning” (I think of winning as 1st-3rd in small classes and 1st-5th in larger ones) but if I was describing a horse’s overall performance as winning, I’d expect better than 3rd place unless these are 40 entry classes.

[LilDunFilly]

@AMackechnie

Thank you for putting that together.

My pleasure!

[Aussie_2020]

And having them come up the chest between the legs

[quietann]

I dunno, I like the Arab crosses better than the more recent WB crosses…

[trubandloki]

Yes, they seemed to work much better than what she is making now.

[CanteringCarrot]

@quietann

I dunno, I like the Arab crosses better than the more recent WB crosses…

I agree.

It’s also interesting in the riding horse x harness (just using basic terms) crosses that the harness seems to dominate, or be more expressed. I think, anyway.

[Mara]

The low set neck and heavy DHH head sure don’t help her jumping efforts, making her unbalanced on the landing side.
Agree that she does seem tolerant despite the tail wringing. “I don’t like this, but I like YOU so I’m going to do it.”

[Rumorhasit93]

@CanteringCarrot

It’s also interesting in the riding horse x harness (just using basic terms) crosses that the harness seems to dominate, or be more expressed. I think, anyway.

You’re absolutely correct. Take Baloubet (TBxFrench trotter), whom Kate is breeding her DHH to…to sell as amateur friendly jumpers?? Absolutely insane to me.

IMO, it’s a small miracle baloubet himself was as successful as he was if you look at how he’s built. Maybe that’s unfortunately giving Kate some hope hers will also be Olympic level mounts

[Paint_Party]

@quietann

I dunno, I like the Arab crosses better than the more recent WB crosses…

@trubandloki

Yes, they seemed to work much better than what she is making now.

Can I join the Great Minds Think Alike club? (Only half joking )

I like the Arab crosses better, generally speaking, too. They have a certain look of quality and elegance to them and are overall decently conformed. Sort of remind me of my mom’s studbook Trakehner mares.

There is a market for ammy friendly, pretty Arab-WB crosses. Wonder why she quit with them and went to breeding the Dutchie Doodles?

[quietann]

I don’t know which mares were used to produce the Arab crosses. Assuming DHH but I may be wrong.

I agree that there’s a market for Arab/WB crosses with ammy-friendly temperaments. They aren’t necessarily going to be high $$$ horses, but something nice enough to get to the Arabian Sport Horse Nationals is another matter.

[DownYonder]

Arabians have been around as a pure breed for so very long that they tend to be very prepotent, esp. when compared to other “breeds” that have only been around for a few decades or even a century or two. So I can certainly see how the Arabian traits could come through much more strongly than warmblood traits. That bay Arabian cross mare is particularly lovely. I’m not a huge fan of her hind end but she is overall a much nicer looking specimen than KS’s recent WB-DHH crosses.

And I am betting KS dumped the Arabian crosses because of the extreme negative opinions of Arabs in most warmblood circles. A “Dutch Warmblood” is a heck of a lot easier to market and sell to H/J people than an Arabian cross.